Normchacho said:
The issue is that our sense of left and right is skewed compared to the rest of the world. Our liberals are European moderates. Our conservatives are Middle Eastern moderates. |
The saddest part is that America used to be the most liberal nation on Earth. Now the freedoms granted by the Founding Fathers are almost meaningless to the average voter.
Oh well, here in Italy many people consider Beppe Grillo's followers morons or nutters for much less.
Trump's ones look more like the faithful of Our Lady of Medjugorje. 
bouzane said:
|
In Ireland, there is nothing even close to the right of US politics. The left is around the same. In most of Europe it's the same. So by comparing either of the US wings to two different areas of the world, you have.....nothingness. "A Mazda 3 is faster than a Fiat Punto and more stylish than a Seat Leon."
| Normchacho said: Lets get something straight here. I'm not saying that those points make him a bad person, I'm saying that the border wall is a bad idea. 1. It's true that roughly 400,000 people enter the U.S. illegally each year, but that's not a net number. Since 2007 more people have been going into Mexico from the United States. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/07/24/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/ 2. This is important because it means that building the border wall will at best stop about half of the people crossing into the U.S. illegally. 3. That's not what I said, I didn't say it was better for the economy than legal immigration. I said some economists believe having them in the U.S. is better than not having them in the U.S. 4. First off, lets get something straight. Trump is a liar. After his claim that he was worth more than 10 billion dollars, Business Insider took at look at his assets and found that he's really worth about 2.9 billion dollars. Anyways, it's both very unlikely that he could get Mexico to spend nearly 3% of it's entire budget on a wall for the United States, and a bad idea to even ask them to do it. The single largest factor in the slow of illegal immigration is the improvement in Mexicos economy. Hurting that now would only make things worse. That's not even talking about the cost of Trumps plan to deport all of the illegal immigrants either, which is estimated to cost roughly 140 billion dollars. http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/donald-trump-immigration-cost-20150818 Oh, and I assume you're talking about the $55 billion in Irans own assets that would theoretically become unfrozen once the deal is concluded. I say theoretically, of course, because much of that money is already tied up in other place. Meaning Iran wouldn't actually get that money. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/treasury-iran-150-billion-nuclear-deal_55b8dc41e4b0224d88348e1c You do realize that though those are in the same sentence, they pertain to different aspects of the same topic. The first (getting better) is talking about the size of the problem (how many people are entering the U.S. illegally), the second part (aren't even really sure) is in relation to how severe the problem is (what effect illegal immigration has on the U.S. economy). That shouldn't have been that difficult to grasp. |
Your stance is that because the number of illegal immigrants in the US has stabilized and it could possibly be a good thing to have illegal immigrants in this country, then what is the point of putting up a costly wall.
1.) So you agree that illegal immigrants are coming into this country. I thought the point of the wall is to stop people coming into the country and not the other way around. So why would you be concerned about the net number of illegal immigrants?
Now let's take a look at your source...
According to your source, the net amount of illegal immigrants since Obama took office has remained the same (11.3 million) despite hundreds of thousands of illegals coming into this country every year. *Slow clap* Good job Obama! Illegal immigrants can't even find jobs. Now this all hinges on this source being accurate. Have you ever asked yourself how they came up with this data? Well you're in luck, because you can read about it under Illegal Immigration By State (first paragraph under this section) shown here:
http://cis.org/node/3877#illegal
So they count the number of illegals by doing governmental surveys. I bet illegal immigrants are just DYING to do them just like you, am I right? So then they get their 10.5 million illegal immigrants and adjust that number by how many illegal immigrants they think didn't respond to these surveys. Uhh what if it was 20% and not 10%? Whoops! 1 million illegal immigrants is a huge error, don't you think? Of course these percentages hinge on the initial 10.5 million is in fact correct. Just because you have numbers, doesn't mean they are accurate.
Now lets listen on Homeland Security talk about illegal immigration shown here (you really only need to watch 18:00-23:00) but you are welcome to watch it all.
"Out of those detected and apprehended, how many were let go with just a notice to appear [in court]? I don't know it. We should have the information on that, but it hasn't been supplied to this committee." That speaks volumes in my opinion...
They then go on and list a bunch of laws that were passed and saw an increase in illegal immigrants throughtout those years and they stated that they had no clue how effective these laws were in stopping illegals coming into this country. This is homeland security and they themselves stated they have no clue.
So now let's consider your source as accurate and that the amount of illegal immigrants have stabilized. Nowhere in your source did it state why it stabilized for the past 6 years. My guess...the economy is shit and there are no jobs for these illegal immigrants. If you disagree with that assessment, then I welcome to an alternative viewpoint. So what happens if our economy gets better and there are more jobs? Then the net illegal immigrants would start increasing so AGAIN you would be back at Donald Trump's point that we need to build a wall and secure the border. We have been saying we need to secure the border 30 years ago and nothing has gotten done. You propose we either don't do it or wait even longer, which of course is not addressing the issue.
2.) You're under the assumption that those crossing the Mexican-US border have to be Mexican. There are so many things wrong with this logic I don't even know where to begin. Can people not drive from South America and cross the American border illegally. Oh but wait, those aren't Mexicans. People can fly into Mexico from anywhere in the world and walk across the US-Mexican border. Again, those people aren't Mexicans. You also point out that we would only stop, at best, half of the illegal immigrants crossing into this country. I thought half is really good...but I guess that is just me. *shrugs*.
3.) Okay this is the point when I threw my hands up in the air. You are more concerned about increase in food than US citizens having jobs. How can the unemployed pay for anything if they don't even have money in the first place! So let's see, we the taxpayers should not be concerned about the exorbitant amout of money that we pay for illegal immigrants in healthcare but VERY concernced about the increased price in milk. Did you know that hospitals are closing down because of illegal immigrants? I could go on and on but I am going to stop here. No need to continue discussing this issue to someone who believes that illegal immigrants are a good thing for a country that has millions of legal US citizens unemployed.
| Chasesdaddy84 said: Can't tell if this is a joke thread.. hope so. He has like a 30 something favorability in the Republican primary compared to the like 15 other candidates... that means 70% like someone other than him in the Republican field alone. Nationwide he is hated by a far larger majority than love him. He is a loud, boisterous bigot, that plays to a large group of the country who share his views. Even with that said those types of people, while the loudest and most outspoken, they are the extremists of the right wing, and the GOP will never win another Presidential election with this type of candidate. When the RNC did that study as to why they lost in 2012 it revealed that they were far too extreme on social issues.. Trump takes it 100 miles past extreme. He will NEVER win even the Republican nomination, let alone the Presidency. Hope this thread is revived in even 6 months when he is out of the race. Just wait for it. |
trump is just louder than the rest, they have alot of extremist in the field, and some of them are just insane like ted cruz who thinks he is jesus.
the GOP cant win the next election, they are way to far out on alot of issues and have no candidate that has enough balls to stand against the rise of the extrem right.
Don't know if this was posted in here or not. 
ps3-sales! said:
Why? How does America affect your country that much.
Would they actually be fucked? No. Could they be affected a small amount? Sure.
Dont over react. Us presidents aren't that big of a deal. |
Ever heard of the 2008 financial crisis? Of course it is not only the president's fault. He is still a big chunk of the political system though.
Aeolus451 said:
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I guess I can conclude that you aren't as confident as your previous comment conveys. Pity, it's always a treat removing the wool from the eyes of sheep.
RadiantDanceMachine said:
I guess I can conclude that you aren't as confident as your previous comment conveys. Pity, it's always a treat removing the wool from the eyes of sheep. |
Considering that you're a new account and your attitude, I can't trust that you're not an alt. So why would I make any bets whatsoever with you? 
Aeolus451 said:
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This is my only account. You are backpeddling faster than Lance Armstrong, not a good look.
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