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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo NX: Hardware Specs, Games, Third Party Support And Everything You Need To Know

twintail said:
Wyrdness said:

The GBA has no competition to sell that much and was cut short when competition arrived, 3DS in your words being challenged by mobile and Vita yet still selling the same range and possibly more indicates no decline as those numbers are the same to when no competition was around which highlights my earlier point in mobiles not really replacing portables.

Want numbers for PSP they're on this very site, look at the software numbers, after 2009 it virtually became non existent, FFVII was running on PSPs before it was even on PSN.


DS launched before PSP so the DS would have first affected GBA . The fiscal year of the DS launch, GBA sales declined the year before by about 2 million units. A year later, 7 million and onwards it fell. Having the DS directly affected the GBA sales potential.

If 3DS got a successor as quickly as GBA did, it would probably not even hit 60 million LTD. 70 is still < 80.  This is important in terms of understanding the context behind the GBA's sales of 80 million and how they dont represent the market it could have had. Solid numbers is not a genuine way of representing what the GBA (or any console) meant for its generation. The fact that you are so willing to dictate that the PSP only managed to hit 80 million because of piracy is indicative that you are willing to consider context, but for the GBA  you seem unwilling.

Unfortunantely I am not willing to use this site for its sales numbers because they cant really be validated in terms of authenticity. Additionally, this site doesnt track digital sales and unless you can comment on that you have no real basis on how well software sold from 2009 onwards.

If the 3DS cant hit 80 million then there is a decline (not counting how Nintendo cut off their GBA market potential). The entire market has, nonetheless, seen a decline with DS+PSP being miles better than PSV+3DS. Sony and Nintendo were able to grow the handheld market together yet neither have been able to cultivate that this gen (Nintendo of course better so but there are reaons for that). Partly because of decisions they made and partly because the market has changed.

Nintendo will still see pretty decent enough sales as long as they have their handheld IPs, but once those become available on console, what purpose does one have for a dedicated handheld device, in a console dominated market?

 


I think it's the other way around more likely. More people will choose the handheld than the console version. Franchises like 3D Zelda, Splatoon, Mario Maker, and the higher fidelity Nintendo franchises will no longer be kept away from the handheld. 

The main thing the console variant will have is that it'll probably offer better graphics to the same games.



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twintail said:


DS launched before PSP so the DS would have first affected GBA . The fiscal year of the DS launch, GBA sales declined the year before by about 2 million units. A year later, 7 million and onwards it fell. Having the DS directly affected the GBA sales potential.

If 3DS got a successor as quickly as GBA did, it would probably not even hit 60 million LTD. 70 is still < 80.  This is important in terms of understanding the context behind the GBA's sales of 80 million and how they dont represent the market it could have had. Solid numbers is not a genuine way of representing what the GBA (or any console) meant for its generation. The fact that you are so willing to dictate that the PSP only managed to hit 80 million because of piracy is indicative that you are willing to consider context, but for the GBA  you seem unwilling.

Unfortunantely I am not willing to use this site for its sales numbers because they cant really be validated in terms of authenticity. Additionally, this site doesnt track digital sales and unless you can comment on that you have no real basis on how well software sold from 2009 onwards.

If the 3DS cant hit 80 million then there is a decline (not counting how Nintendo cut off their GBA market potential). The entire market has, nonetheless, seen a decline with DS+PSP being miles better than PSV+3DS. Sony and Nintendo were able to grow the handheld market together yet neither have been able to cultivate that this gen (Nintendo of course better so but there are reaons for that). Partly because of decisions they made and partly because the market has changed.

Nintendo will still see pretty decent enough sales as long as they have their handheld IPs, but once those become available on console, what purpose does one have for a dedicated handheld device, in a console dominated market?

 


PSP was announced before the DS in fact it's long been considered the DS was a reaction to it, GBA was going to be cut short no matter what as a strong competitior was now on the way. DS launched a month before the PSP and that was in one region, NA, while the PSP launched in Japan, so it was both devices that impacted the GBA, the PSP for the first 7 or so months when released in NA was outselling the DS in the US.

The only way the 3DS would have got a successor as fast as the GBA is if the 3DS had performed badly, worse then the Wii U has, that's the context behind both the GBA and the 3DS, one performed with no competition and was cut short when competition turned up while the other has performed with competition. Believe me if Nintendo thought the GBA was going to be fine and sell loads more when the PSP was launched they would not have brought out the DS as quickly as they did if at all, PSP is what ended the GBA's run not the DS.

Sorry but you refusing to accept this very site that you're on as a source is not my problem and doesn't put any requirement on me, software sales declined from 2009 onwards the years when the homebrew scene really exploded mind you with only games like MH carrying the platform after that year.

Soundwave pretty much hit the point on the head as it's more likely the portable side benefits more from sharing the library, Smash bros had a bigger impact on 3DS then Wii U as did 3D Mario while MK had an equal effect on both portable and home console. What the console side of things is going to benefit from is more the third party titiles put on the portable as that would help deal with droughts.



twintail said:
Soundwave said:
I think it's the other way around more likely. More people will choose the handheld than the console version. Franchises like 3D Zelda, Splatoon, Mario Maker, and the higher fidelity Nintendo franchises will no longer be kept away from the handheld. 

The main thing the console variant will have is that it'll probably offer better graphics to the same games.


Interesting point of view. I can only see this as a possibility if there is a lack of regard for Nintendo as a console maker. Which is quite possible I suppose, considering the WiiU.

 


I don't think it's really much of a stretch. Given a choice between a Nintendo handheld and a console we have pretty definitive proof for over like 20 years now that people have chosen the Nintendo handheld even with dramatically lower graphical capabilities. 

Even the Wii, Nintendo's one big console success in the last 20 years was outsold fairly easily by the DS (wasn't even close). 

And 3DS while it may finish at 70-75 million, that's still miles away from the 18-20 million the Wii U looks bound for. 

If the only difference going forward between the two devices is going to be the same game experiences but better graphics for the console version, the handheld is likely going to be far and away the no.1 choice for consumers. 

Remember the GCN had the entire GBA library too, via the GB Player, it still wasn't even close to GBA sales. The portability aspect is far more appealling to consumers.



They better have some games to be release exclusively on the console, because they will not stay relevant if they stick to only making handhelds. They need to compete with Sony and Microsoft just like they did with Sega.



twintail said:

 

Wyrdness said:
PSP was announced before the DS in fact it's long been considered the DS was a reaction to it, GBA was going to be cut short no matter what as a strong competitior was now on the way. DS launched a month before the PSP and that was in one region, NA, while the PSP launched in Japan, so it was both devices that impacted the GBA, the PSP for the first 7 or so months when released in NA was outselling the DS in the US.

The only way the 3DS would have got a successor as fast as the GBA is if the 3DS had performed badly, worse then the Wii U has, that's the context behind both the GBA and the 3DS, one performed with no competition and was cut short when competition turned up while the other has performed with competition. Believe me if Nintendo thought the GBA was going to be fine and sell loads more when the PSP was launched they would not have brought out the DS as quickly as they did if at all, PSP is what ended the GBA's run not the DS.

Sorry but you refusing to accept this very site that you're on as a source is not my problem and doesn't put any requirement on me, software sales declined from 2009 onwards the years when the homebrew scene really exploded mind you with only games like MH carrying the platform after that year.

Soundwave pretty much hit the point on the head as it's more likely the portable side benefits more from sharing the library, Smash bros had a bigger impact on 3DS then Wii U as did 3D Mario while MK had an equal effect on both portable and home console. What the console side of things is going to benefit from is more the third party titiles put on the portable as that would help deal with droughts.

 

I know why the DS was possibly announced but blaming GBA sales decline on the PSP makes no sense. DS was the GBA successor (which alone means GBA was going to delcine) and it it launched in both US and JPN before the PSP even saw its first release. Combined with the new ways to play games (including GBA) along with the usual appeal that comes with successor hardware, what appeal did the GBA exactly have at the point? None, besides the price. 

Combined, sure the PSP and DS together would have hurt the GBA but there is a first mover for everything, and the first mover for GBA decline was the release of the DS since it would have been competing for sales against the GBA before the PSP arrived. Blaming this on the PSP is silly since it was ultimately Nintendo's own decisions that hurt the GBA. Just because they reacted to other happenings doesnt change that they made moves to bring a new handheld to the market.

Technically it is your problem because you are trying to back up your claims with info from a site that is mostly regarded as innaccurate, which only makes your claims less valid. I'm not saying you are wrong, just that you made a pretty wide sweeping comment on the PSP and cited an unreliable site as your source.

Soundwave may be right and I acknowledge as such, but something like Smash benefitted from releasing on handheld first and having a larger install base at the time of release.

If you wholeheartedly believe that there is no decline in the handheld sector then that is great.


GBA sales were going to decline as result of the PSP's existence that's the whole point, if the DS wasn't there the sales would have gone to Sony, Nintendo had to get the DS out fast otherwise they risked handing the market to Sony like how the N64 delay gave Sony free reign over the console market for a year and a half. Even if the DS was always on the way the PSP forced the situation in bringing it out early in the GBA's life.

Again it isn't really my problem if you don't want to accept VGC because if I was wrong on the software side of things on the PSP the site would have numbers however inaccurate highlighting this after all they have the numbers of notable releases after 2009 and those aren't great, piracy and homebrew on the PSP was no secret.

Smash is a series that not only has never hit portable but a fighting game as well, a genre that has never really faired well on portables, the majority of people thought the home console version would outell it no problem but instead the opposite happened. I'm willing to bet the games that have been exclusive on console until now will experience something similar as really the main reason the consoles would benefit from having a shared library is the third party games the portable side of things get.



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I kinda expect that Nintendo's business in the coming years will be driven mostly by

NX Portable (pillar 1) and smartphone games (pillar 2, which will be very profitable for them).

The console will just be more of like an accessorie to the handheld that they sell a fairly low number of but keep around for legacy sake and for the group of Nintendo fans who just must play games on their TV.



Soundwave said:
I kinda expect that Nintendo's business in the coming years will be driven mostly by

NX Portable (pillar 1) and smartphone games (pillar 2, which will be very profitable for them).

The console will just be more of like an accessorie to the handheld that they sell a fairly low number of but keep around for legacy sake and for the group of Nintendo fans who just must play games on their TV.


Yeah I can see the console side of it hovering at 15-20m each time tbh, with the portable and mobile side making most of the money.



Nintendo sells tens of millions of consoles every generation. How is this not a success? I know turning issues into black and white sells but let's be honest, they have always made money and it doesn't show any signs of stopping.



Feel free to check out my stream on twitch 

twintail said:

the game and publisher support was still there for a good few years after the DS launched. Couple it with Nintendo made software and it would have been healthy.

 

One the best selling games on PSP was a late 2009 release: GT with over 4 million sales and yet VGC lists it at only 3 million. That is a large chunk of sales for 1 single game from 2009 onwards that your source is innaccurate. PSP still received game support, and still receives game support to this day.

No the majority of ppl expected the WiiU version to sell less when it was discovered that the 3DS version was going to release a good few months first. It was pretty obvious to everyone which version would sell better because of that scenario.

  


Lets look at the scenario you're putting forward and use another example to highlight how it could have played out, so Nintendo keeps the GBA around and it gets a few more sales problem is with out the DS but then Sony may have taken hold of the portable market, the SNES was healthy when the PS1 and Saturn arrived but the result of that was that when the N64 came it was thrown in a losing battle by default against the PS1, Monster Hunter made its jump to PSP not long after it launched and that was a huge killer app for the PSP and the GBA at that point already had all its big guns out, MH could have done for PSP what the likes of Wipeout and Crash did for PS1. That risk was far too big for Nintendo to take and they were right as PSP sold GBA numbers for a while after launch, Playstation as a brand was a massively known factor in gaming at this point unlike with the SNES so the risk was even bigger.

That game highlights my point it's one of the best selling games so they have some numbers for it even if as you claim they're inaccurate the site indicates that it sold well.

Sorry but that'snot true as the majority of people didn't expect the portable version to sell more at any point because the Smash community are console based and fighting games on portables struggle, the earlier release was seen by people as an attempt to give the portable version a chance to sell as everyone expected the home version to demolish the portable version if released together and it's possible Nintendo may have felt the same.



Wagram said:
Soundwave said:

You do realize Nintendo made consoles long before the GameCube right?


I don't know, my NES library must be fake.

I will not support a digital only machine - ever.

But you said you wouldn't buy it if it didn't have an optical drive.

There's a lot of physical media that isn't read from an optical disc.