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Forums - Sony Discussion - Piracy affects PSP sales? Pfft! You're crazy!

Kasz216 said:
kingofwale said:
>I think most people are smart enough to not admit to random strangers they plan to commit copyright infringement. Let alone at Best Buy where they take your Name and Address.

Bestbuy doesn't take your name and address UNLESS you are returning something. Unlike some store that needs your driver's license when you trade in a game.

 

That's weird. My best buy asks me for my name every time I go in the store and got my address one of the first times i went there.

I've never returned anything to Best Buy.


Bestbuy employee is supposed to ask for your name as a way friendly way to refer to you. It's their "Customer-centric" business plan. How they got your address... or the fact you actually GAVE your adress to a random person without a good reason is beyond my level of understanding.

 

@loudhotwhitebox... Yeah, we all know that Internet forum about video games is the best place to critique the use of English language among the masses.



Soriku (Feb 10/08): In 5 years the PS3/360 will be dead.

KH3 bet: "If KH3 comes to Wii exclusive, I will take a 1 month of sig/avatar by otheres open a thread apologize and praise you guys' brilliance." http://vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?start=50&id=18379
Original cast: Badonkadonkhr, sc94597 allaboutthegames885, kingofwale, Soriku, ctk495, skeezer, RDBRaptor, Mirson,

Episode 1: OOPSY!
selnor
: Too Human I even expect 3-4 mill entire life and 500,000 first day. GoW2 ( expect 7 - 9 million entire life and over 2 mill first day), Fable 2 (expect 5-6 million entire life and 1.5 mill fist day) BK3 (expect 4 - 5 mill sales entire life and 1 mill first day).. Tales/IU/TLR should get to 2 or 3 million! post id: 868878
Episode 2:
Letsdance: FFXIII (PS3+360) first week in NA = 286K
According to pre-order rate in week 13 (post id: 2902544)
Around the Network
Lone_Canis_Lupus said:
Kasz216 said:
Lone_Canis_Lupus said:
Kasz216 said:
I'll put it this way. Look at credible studies on media piracy. (aka not ones that are just... they downloaded 10 copies that means we lost 600 dollars!)

You'll see that the results show their isn't a statistcal differnece from zero. In other words, piracy doesn't really effect media sales. While it lowers some peoples purchases who buy games... it also gets people who wouldn't buy games to buy hardware. It Also gets people who wouldn't buy games to buy hardware, get enthused about a medium they weren't as familiar with before and start buying the real product.

One Microsoft employee's model is "Don't pirate, but if you do pirate... pirate us." because they know if they aren't going to make a sale anyway it benfits them to have the pirates be used to their software.

Look, forget the hardware for a minute Kasz, I'm talking STRICTLY about software and pirating. People complain about the PSP sales being so low, but they ignore the fact of just how much games are pirated. I'm talking about why software sales are low, not about the hardware sales. I'm giving a reason to people about why the software sales are low.


And I'm saying I don't thing software sales are low. I think they are about exactly where they should be. If you removed piracy from the equation there wouldn't be a statistically significant change... those people who aren't buying PSP games still wouldn't be buying PS games.


So, you're saying people that pirate wouldn't buy a PSP anyway? That makes it seem like the games really aren't that important to them. That's like saying people that steal a HDTV still wouldn't buy it even if they had the money for it. If people couldn't pirate, it wouldn't scare them away from buying games with their own money if they could and really wanted to.


 No it's like saying people who steel a HDTV wouldn't buy one because they don't have the money because it's not as important as other things.  And if people couldn't pirate they wouldn't get 90% of the stuff they download, because they weren't that intersted to begin with.



"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."

Your theories are the worst kind of popular tripe, your methods are sloppy, and your conclusions are highly questionable! You are a poor scientist. Especially if you think the moon landing was faked.


ioi + 1
kenzomatic said:
Lone_Canis_Lupus said:
Kasz216 said:
Lone_Canis_Lupus said:
Kasz216 said:
I'll put it this way. Look at credible studies on media piracy. (aka not ones that are just... they downloaded 10 copies that means we lost 600 dollars!)

You'll see that the results show their isn't a statistcal differnece from zero. In other words, piracy doesn't really effect media sales. While it lowers some peoples purchases who buy games... it also gets people who wouldn't buy games to buy hardware. It Also gets people who wouldn't buy games to buy hardware, get enthused about a medium they weren't as familiar with before and start buying the real product.

One Microsoft employee's model is "Don't pirate, but if you do pirate... pirate us." because they know if they aren't going to make a sale anyway it benfits them to have the pirates be used to their software.

Look, forget the hardware for a minute Kasz, I'm talking STRICTLY about software and pirating. People complain about the PSP sales being so low, but they ignore the fact of just how much games are pirated. I'm talking about why software sales are low, not about the hardware sales. I'm giving a reason to people about why the software sales are low.


And I'm saying I don't thing software sales are low. I think they are about exactly where they should be. If you removed piracy from the equation there wouldn't be a statistically significant change... those people who aren't buying PSP games still wouldn't be buying PS games.


So, you're saying people that pirate wouldn't buy a PSP anyway? That makes it seem like the games really aren't that important to them. That's like saying people that steal a HDTV still wouldn't buy it even if they had the money for it. If people couldn't pirate, it wouldn't scare them away from buying games with their own money if they could and really wanted to.


No it's like saying people who steel a HDTV wouldn't buy one because they don't have the money because it's not as important as other things. And if people couldn't pirate they wouldn't get 90% of the stuff they download, because they weren't that intersted to begin with.


 Is there some study for something like this? I'd like to know what a majority of pirates pirate for...if they just don't have the money, or because they'd rather not have to pay for it?



PSN: Lone_Canis_Lupus

kingofwale said:
Kasz216 said:
kingofwale said:
>I think most people are smart enough to not admit to random strangers they plan to commit copyright infringement. Let alone at Best Buy where they take your Name and Address.

Bestbuy doesn't take your name and address UNLESS you are returning something. Unlike some store that needs your driver's license when you trade in a game.

 

That's weird. My best buy asks me for my name every time I go in the store and got my address one of the first times i went there.

I've never returned anything to Best Buy.


Bestbuy employee is supposed to ask for your name as a way friendly way to refer to you. It's their "Customer-centric" business plan. How they got your address... or the fact you actually GAVE your adress to a random person without a good reason is beyond my level of understanding.

 

@loudhotwhitebox... Yeah, we all know that Internet forum about video games is the best place to critique the use of English language among the masses.


What do I care? What are they going to do... mail me junk mail? Not that I actually remember giving them my address in the first place.

Either way, it's easy to get someones address once you have their name and Area code. (Or Zip code i forget which, either are helpful enough though.) At least it is when you have a distinctive eastern europeon last name.

The thing just pops up on the screen every time with my name, and a bunch of other info. Maybe the Best Buy by me is just more up to date then yours or something it seems like mine tracks consumer purchasing data.  Which is actually something i'm glad to do as it helps the buisness cater more to what the people in the area are buying.



Lone_Canis_Lupus said:
kenzomatic said:
Lone_Canis_Lupus said:
Kasz216 said:
Lone_Canis_Lupus said:
Kasz216 said:
I'll put it this way. Look at credible studies on media piracy. (aka not ones that are just... they downloaded 10 copies that means we lost 600 dollars!)

You'll see that the results show their isn't a statistcal differnece from zero. In other words, piracy doesn't really effect media sales. While it lowers some peoples purchases who buy games... it also gets people who wouldn't buy games to buy hardware. It Also gets people who wouldn't buy games to buy hardware, get enthused about a medium they weren't as familiar with before and start buying the real product.

One Microsoft employee's model is "Don't pirate, but if you do pirate... pirate us." because they know if they aren't going to make a sale anyway it benfits them to have the pirates be used to their software.

Look, forget the hardware for a minute Kasz, I'm talking STRICTLY about software and pirating. People complain about the PSP sales being so low, but they ignore the fact of just how much games are pirated. I'm talking about why software sales are low, not about the hardware sales. I'm giving a reason to people about why the software sales are low.


And I'm saying I don't thing software sales are low. I think they are about exactly where they should be. If you removed piracy from the equation there wouldn't be a statistically significant change... those people who aren't buying PSP games still wouldn't be buying PS games.


So, you're saying people that pirate wouldn't buy a PSP anyway? That makes it seem like the games really aren't that important to them. That's like saying people that steal a HDTV still wouldn't buy it even if they had the money for it. If people couldn't pirate, it wouldn't scare them away from buying games with their own money if they could and really wanted to.


No it's like saying people who steel a HDTV wouldn't buy one because they don't have the money because it's not as important as other things. And if people couldn't pirate they wouldn't get 90% of the stuff they download, because they weren't that intersted to begin with.


Is there some study for something like this? I'd like to know what a majority of pirates pirate for...if they just don't have the money, or because they'd rather not have to pay for it?


There are several studies that focus around those who don't pirate out of necessity, though they just about all focus on the music and movie industries. The studies show that music piracy doesn't effect the rate at which people buy CDs. In fact on average people who pirate more actually tend to buy more CDs because piracy further indoctrinates them into the "music" lifestyle.

As for studying the number of people who pirate just because they are poor, I can't say. Though that kind of piracy is definitly beneficial.

Of course just straight Blackmarket selling of products piracy is bad for a company because often times in plenty of sectors this replaces the real product. Customers couldn't get the unpirated product unless they went well out of their way to pay more money.

Either way, considering the studies of the above seem to show that even the people who could afford it "as a group" aren't hurting it... then the split doesn't really matter.

Of course piracy still is wrong.  It's not stealing exactly, since it's not like you are depriving people, but it is wrong. 



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well....each download represents each copy of the game that COULD have been bought - thus decreasing SW sales



There's an entire branch of economics devoted to this subject, you realize. It's part of advanced supply and demand theory, in fact. The basic model of supply and demand is that a certain number of goods are demanded at a given price level, while producers are willing to supply a certain amount of good at a given price level, and the ideal is for supply to match demand.

The effects of piracy on this are borderline minimalist, though. For the most part, consumers are trained to want to pay for the things they receive, as long as the price is reasonable to them. When the price is above what a consumer is willing to pay, and there is a means to obtain it that is not as expensive or free, the odds of them doing so go up as the price of the item in question exceeds the price they're willing to pay for it. Piracy is essentially a component of the substitute good factor, and has much the same caveats. Those who resort to it are unwilling to pay the asking price of the good in question. Ergo, technically the only sales lost are those that are lost by the product in question being above the ideal price point for those consumers.



Sky Render - Sanity is for the weak.

dsoverpsp said:
well....each download represents each copy of the game that COULD have been bought - thus decreasing SW sales

Except could doesn't equal would.

I mean if you had a PS3 and someone said "You can have Lair for free and it was a legitamite copy of the game would you say no? Or would you say "Well I didn't want to buy that anyway but hey the game is free, so it's not like i'd be supporting the game, and maybe i'll get some kind of enjoyment out of it."

Furthermore say you hate Japanese RPGs... yet someone said "Hey do you want FF13" are you going to say no? Or are you going to say "Sure i'll give it a shot."

Now say you suddenly enjoy FF13, it completly changes your view on it, and suddenly you become a big FF13 fan. Don't you think you'd likely buy the game to support the company rather then just pirate it?

Lots of people want to support the studios and games they like. Look at artists expirmenting with the "Pay whatever you want" method of digital downloads.

Believe it or not... a lot of pirates actually are the same people.  Most people are this way.  Most people actually want to pay for something rather then just steal it believe it or not.



Kasz216 said:
kingofwale said:
Kasz216 said:
kingofwale said:
>I think most people are smart enough to not admit to random strangers they plan to commit copyright infringement. Let alone at Best Buy where they take your Name and Address.

Bestbuy doesn't take your name and address UNLESS you are returning something. Unlike some store that needs your driver's license when you trade in a game.

 

That's weird. My best buy asks me for my name every time I go in the store and got my address one of the first times i went there.

I've never returned anything to Best Buy.


Bestbuy employee is supposed to ask for your name as a way friendly way to refer to you. It's their "Customer-centric" business plan. How they got your address... or the fact you actually GAVE your adress to a random person without a good reason is beyond my level of understanding.

 

@loudhotwhitebox... Yeah, we all know that Internet forum about video games is the best place to critique the use of English language among the masses.


What do I care? What are they going to do... mail me junk mail? Not that I actually remember giving them my address in the first place.

Either way, it's easy to get someones address once you have their name and Area code. (Or Zip code i forget which, either are helpful enough though.) At least it is when you have a distinctive eastern europeon last name.

The thing just pops up on the screen every time with my name, and a bunch of other info. Maybe the Best Buy by me is just more up to date then yours or something it seems like mine tracks consumer purchasing data. Which is actually something i'm glad to do as it helps the buisness cater more to what the people in the area are buying.


 I don't think (to my understanding) that bestbuy even sends out junkmails. Other than emails promoting their flyers and Customer loyalty Days.

Did they ask for your last name? Because they are supposed to, nor will they supposed to ask for your Area Code (You don't have to give them neither)

 Maybe you are just being too paranoid. Bestbuy is not out there to get you. Feel free to shop anywhere, it's not like there isn't any other competition out there.



Soriku (Feb 10/08): In 5 years the PS3/360 will be dead.

KH3 bet: "If KH3 comes to Wii exclusive, I will take a 1 month of sig/avatar by otheres open a thread apologize and praise you guys' brilliance." http://vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?start=50&id=18379
Original cast: Badonkadonkhr, sc94597 allaboutthegames885, kingofwale, Soriku, ctk495, skeezer, RDBRaptor, Mirson,

Episode 1: OOPSY!
selnor
: Too Human I even expect 3-4 mill entire life and 500,000 first day. GoW2 ( expect 7 - 9 million entire life and over 2 mill first day), Fable 2 (expect 5-6 million entire life and 1.5 mill fist day) BK3 (expect 4 - 5 mill sales entire life and 1 mill first day).. Tales/IU/TLR should get to 2 or 3 million! post id: 868878
Episode 2:
Letsdance: FFXIII (PS3+360) first week in NA = 286K
According to pre-order rate in week 13 (post id: 2902544)
kingofwale said:
Kasz216 said:
kingofwale said:
Kasz216 said:
kingofwale said:
>I think most people are smart enough to not admit to random strangers they plan to commit copyright infringement. Let alone at Best Buy where they take your Name and Address.

Bestbuy doesn't take your name and address UNLESS you are returning something. Unlike some store that needs your driver's license when you trade in a game.

 

That's weird. My best buy asks me for my name every time I go in the store and got my address one of the first times i went there.

I've never returned anything to Best Buy.


Bestbuy employee is supposed to ask for your name as a way friendly way to refer to you. It's their "Customer-centric" business plan. How they got your address... or the fact you actually GAVE your adress to a random person without a good reason is beyond my level of understanding.

 

@loudhotwhitebox... Yeah, we all know that Internet forum about video games is the best place to critique the use of English language among the masses.


What do I care? What are they going to do... mail me junk mail? Not that I actually remember giving them my address in the first place.

Either way, it's easy to get someones address once you have their name and Area code. (Or Zip code i forget which, either are helpful enough though.) At least it is when you have a distinctive eastern europeon last name.

The thing just pops up on the screen every time with my name, and a bunch of other info. Maybe the Best Buy by me is just more up to date then yours or something it seems like mine tracks consumer purchasing data. Which is actually something i'm glad to do as it helps the buisness cater more to what the people in the area are buying.


I don't think (to my understanding) that bestbuy even sends out junkmails. Other than emails promoting their flyers and Customer loyalty Days.

Did they ask for your last name? Because they are supposed to, nor will they supposed to ask for your Area Code (You don't have to give them neither)

Maybe you are just being too paranoid. Bestbuy is not out there to get you. Feel free to shop anywhere, it's not like there isn't any other competition out there.


That's not why i don't shop their much. I mean they already have their info. I don't shop their because I have like 8 gamestops and a Toys R Us that are closer to me. I only shop their when I go by the Dentist or the Candy store. (which explains my constant trips to the dentist.)

It's not that i think Best Buy would be out to get pirates. It's that I'd expect individual people to do so. I know plenty of people who'd be willing to screw someone over by reporting them if they knew they were going to pirate and if they pissed the guy off. Not that i imagine anything would come of it.

But yeah, they ask for my area code all the time. A lot of stores with national chains do around here. Toys R Us does too for example.

Actually come to think of it... I'm pretty sure it's due to my county and their weird sales tax rules.