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Forums - Gaming - Suspension of Disbelief(Why western fans dislike JRPG's)

 

What is the main reason Westerns dislike JRPGs?

Aesthetics 66 26.83%
 
Suspension of Disbelief 16 6.50%
 
Convoluted Stories 43 17.48%
 
Linearity 24 9.76%
 
They are simple not open minded.... 97 39.43%
 
Total:246
Samus Aran said:
Burek said:
My problem with JRPGs is that almost all of them are turn-based.
I find that boring and tedious, tried to play a few and always had to fight falling asleep of boredom.
It's not the only problem I have with them, but is the main one.

I also think that they all look the same, play the same and have the same story.

I gave them several chances, there is no chance I'll ever play one again.

- Genei Ibun Roku #FE
- Persona 5
- Yo-kai Watch
- Monster Hunter Stories (depending on what kind of game it turns out to be and if it comes to the West)
- Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam
- Fire Emblem: Fates

These are the ones on my radar. Besides the first two, none of them look the same, play the same or have the same story.

Yo-kai Watch and Monster Hunter (Stories) are also not turn-based. Mario & Luigi is turn based, but because you need to time your button presses correctly the battles are very engaging. And characters can counter-attack during an enemy phase in Fire Emblem (and vice versa), so it's not really tedious or boring.

All those except Persona are on Nintendo consoles, so they don't exist for me. And Persona is turn based, I tried playing P4G on Vita, but after I fell asleep few times in the first dungeon while fighting some amorphous blobs a dozen times, I decided to quit (especially since it took about an hour of pressing X to get through the comic book to get to actual gameplay).

 

The reason why I really wanted to give JRPG a shot was South Park. The game was well made, interesting, moved at a decent pace, and it was turn based. And I didn't mind, as it was explained well and did not require hours of trial and error.

Only then, when I tried to play other turn based games is that I realized rlthat they were all the same (main character, party of 3, fiddle with skills, take turns...) and it certainly didn't help that they were anime kids and girls with oversized mammaries for no reason at all.

Then I tried Child of Light, which is a completely diferent aesthetic, but I simply couldn't get past the combat.

In retrospect, it seems the only reason I liked South Park.game was because I am a huge fan. Had it been any other story and characters with the same gameplay, I probably would have given up as well.

I tried some other Japanese RPG action games like Toukiden, Soul Sacrifice etc. but gavebup quickly, as all they are a procession of monsters you need to kill over and over again.

I do realize the problem is my taste most of all, but I think I gave it a decent effort, and now I can avoid those games for good.



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Burek said:
Samus Aran said:

- Genei Ibun Roku #FE
- Persona 5
- Yo-kai Watch
- Monster Hunter Stories (depending on what kind of game it turns out to be and if it comes to the West)
- Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam
- Fire Emblem: Fates

These are the ones on my radar. Besides the first two, none of them look the same, play the same or have the same story.

Yo-kai Watch and Monster Hunter (Stories) are also not turn-based. Mario & Luigi is turn based, but because you need to time your button presses correctly the battles are very engaging. And characters can counter-attack during an enemy phase in Fire Emblem (and vice versa), so it's not really tedious or boring.

All those except Persona are on Nintendo consoles, so they don't exist for me. And Persona is turn based, I tried playing P4G on Vita, but after I fell asleep few times in the first dungeon while fighting some amorphous blobs a dozen times, I decided to quit (especially since it took about an hour of pressing X to get through the comic book to get to actual gameplay).

 

The reason why I really wanted to give JRPG a shot was South Park. The game was well made, interesting, moved at a decent pace, and it was turn based. And I didn't mind, as it was explained well and did not require hours of trial and error.

Only then, when I tried to play other turn based games is that I realized rlthat they were all the same (main character, party of 3, fiddle with skills, take turns...) and it certainly didn't help that they were anime kids and girls with oversized mammaries for no reason at all.

Then I tried Child of Light, which is a completely diferent aesthetic, but I simply couldn't get past the combat.

In retrospect, it seems the only reason I liked South Park.game was because I am a huge fan. Had it been any other story and characters with the same gameplay, I probably would have given up as well.

I tried some other Japanese RPG action games like Toukiden, Soul Sacrifice etc. but gavebup quickly, as all they are a procession of monsters you need to kill over and over again.

I do realize the problem is my taste most of all, but I think I gave it a decent effort, and now I can avoid those games for good.

That South Park game was inspired by Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi. :) 

(not story wise of course, lol)

But my point still stands: they're not all the same. I can understand why you think a lot of them are boring though, I'm also bored by Pokémon's battle system.



Samus Aran said:

That South Park game was inspired by Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi. :) 

(not story wise of course, lol)

But my point still stands: they're not all the same. I can understand why you think a lot of them are boring though, I'm also bored by Pokémon's battle system.

Didn't know that, I learned something new. But I probably couldn't play those Mario games for more than 30 minutes. And still, the next South Park was my favorite E3 announcement.

And now that I think of it, last Japanese game I gave a chance was Akiba's Trip. I figured, it's not turn-based, it's a type of open-world game which is positive for me....

...and then again I get bombarded by lines of text I need to press X to get through.

So, I guess that is my second major problem: static "comic books" and walls of text. I much prefer cinematics of the western developers (I do realize that this is a cost cutting measure, but I cannot tolerate it).



Burek said:
Samus Aran said:

That South Park game was inspired by Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi. :) 

(not story wise of course, lol)

But my point still stands: they're not all the same. I can understand why you think a lot of them are boring though, I'm also bored by Pokémon's battle system.

Didn't know that, I learned something new. But I probably couldn't play those Mario games for more than 30 minutes. And still, the next South Park was my favorite E3 announcement.

And now that I think of it, last Japanese game I gave a chance was Akiba's Trip. I figured, it's not turn-based, it's a type of open-world game which is positive for me....

...and then again I get bombarded by lines of text I need to press X to get through.

So, I guess that is my second major problem: static "comic books" and walls of text. I much prefer cinematics of the western developers (I do realize that this is a cost cutting measure, but I cannot tolerate it).

I also hate that. Was a major problem for me with Bravely Default.

Seems to be the case with Yo-kai Watch as well, but I'm still hyped vfor it, looks pretty unique and fun.

But if the animations are nice, I can really enjoy turn-based combat. It allows me to play relaxed while laying in my lazy couch. I also prefer the visual style of Persona and Genei Ibun Roku over realistic graphics. The colours really pop. The world in Genei Ibun Roku is also based on Tokyo, so I'm going to love to spot all the locations I recognize.



I think both sides just arent open minded enough to deal with the cultural differences.

Whenever we get a game like Bravely Default Fire Emblem or Final Fantasy western gamers need to push their political views about girls in skimpy clothing, religious references and spiky haired teenage boys. Its not even about the gameplay anymore its always about tropes this tropes that. But give them a Japanese game with minimal next to no Japanese references in it like Metal Gear Dark Souls and Silent Hill then they shut the fuck up and actually talk about the gameplay.

On the other hand Japanese gamers just dont like anything non Japanese its like they like Resident Evil but they dont like Dead Space they like Dark Souls but they dont like Elder Scrolls its like they like fictional fantasy and realistic worlds as long as they have that Japanese touch to them.



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Snoorlax said:
I think both sides just arent open minded enough to deal with the cultural differences.

Whenever we get a game like Bravely Default Fire Emblem or Final Fantasy western gamers need to push their political views about girls in skimpy clothing, religious references and spiky haired teenage boys. Its not even about the gameplay anymore its always about tropes this tropes that. But give them a Japanese game with minimal next to no Japanese references in it like Metal Gear Dark Souls and Silent Hill then they shut the fuck up and actually talk about the gameplay.

On the other hand Japanese gamers just dont like anything non Japanese its like they like Resident Evil but they dont like Dead Space they like Dark Souls but they dont like Elder Scrolls its like they like fictional fantasy and realistic worlds as long as they have that Japanese touch to them.


Not everyone on both side, some people are enough open minded to enjoy both cultures, i can enjoy a brainless shooter and a visual novel after that, and i feel very sad for western gamers who are not able to enjoy such games, they miss great opportunities like Persona, Virtue's Last Reward ( what a wonderful master piece, at least 50h on this one , what a crazy experience, i feel very very sorry for someone who cant play this one ) , Phoenix Wright, Gravity Rush, Soul Sacrifice, Deadly Premonition,...

 

The truth is the deepest clever and  immersive experiences are mostly japanese games so it's really sad for these people



Predictions for end of 2014 HW sales:

 PS4: 17m   XB1: 10m    WiiU: 10m   Vita: 10m

 

artur-fernand said:
spemanig said:


"Japanese games have quite a... 'distinct' way of telling their stories, ..."

No, they have a distinct way of localizing them. Most game localizations just suck, especially Square Enix, to be honest. They are really, really bad at localizing. And there's a charm to that that a lot of JRPG fans like, but it's definitely not because it's high quality.

And when I say localization, I'm specifically talking about quality of the translations, not the voice acting, which has become pretty good now. That's why Pokemon is so successful. Those guys nail localization. Same with Earthbound, Xenoblade, and honestly all Nintendo games. They are wizards at localization. (which is why the Mother 3 fan localization felt so sub-par to me)

I agree, in parts. I'm not necessarily talking about the script itself (though it is a factor, and that's why I mentioned KH), but rather the... "tone" of the dialogues, I can't explain. But I get the same vibe by watching anime or undub games - those weird pauses mid-sentences I talked about, and the unrealistic dialogue (which means it's not JUST the localization's fault).

And just adding to my point, japanese stories use a lot of tropes that western games really don't like. Such as the "power of friendship", followed by some speech about how "while I have my friend, I won't lose" or something. Most western players would probably cringe at stuff like this.

Spider-Man is the ebodiement of that trope. I doubt it's that. The style they write in, yes.



DerNebel said:
tiffac said:
The internet really has made the world so small that we have been disliking other cultures that are different from ours.

I mean too much anime?
Western testosterone?

Back then we eat these stuff like candy. When we get a product that is foreign, we go like "OOOOHHH lets try it out" nowadays its more like "meh... we already know this". Its sad really.

I mean, okay a lot of us do not have the extra cash to buy every game but to downplay a game because its different and yet broken popular games are forgiven? There has to be something wrong with the gaming community.

I find it a little too simplifying to chalk the "too much anime" in a lot of JRPGs up to japanese culture, sure anime is definitely part of japanese culture but I'd say its current direction (a lot of cutesy characters, moe, fanservice etc.) is more thanks to an increased focus on very niche consumer groups that actually are willing to buy a lot of merch for those shows. The same focusing can be seen with these JRPGs, cause a lot of them aim at pretty similar groups. Considering that most of the really big series in Japan have that stuff toned down and that the games that really focus on that stuff are generally not exactly lighting the charts on fire in Japan either, I'd say that this stuff even over there is not exactly considered "normal".


Yet, those are the games that are being localized the most. Unfortunately, they're not even making the kind of games that I mentioned in my post anymore and if they are, they're certainly not being localized in the West. The games are too big to be niche and too niche to be big. What are the majority JRPGs you see nowadays on shelves in the West? The ones you described, for the most part. Those are the games you see on the shelves.  I have absolutely no problem with these games as I play a few of 'em, but right now, they're the only game in town as far as JRPGs are concerned and for me, personally, just not as good as the pre-2007 JRPGs. The AA JRPG is dead for the most part (except Tales and SMT) and now the niche has taken their place, while the big boys like FF and Dragon Quest take half a decade to release or more (or in Dragon Quest's case, is just never localized).



Unlike many others who enjoy JRPGs, the story means almost nothing to me. If I want a good story, I'll read a book. I care more about gameplay, so if something makes more sense gameplay-wise as opposed to story-wise, for example the pins in The World Ends With You, I prefer that. I think The World Ends With You is a great game, years ago i would have even called it my favorite, but there is no way that the story will get any compliments from me.



Well, Final Fantasy is pretty popular.