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Forums - Politics Discussion - Death sentence. Yes or no?

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Normchacho said:
McDonaldsGuy said:


Yes! Although I don't think rapists should get the death penalty (mainly because it's too much "he said she said").

Children are starving, and anyone who gives money to a serial killer over a starving child is evil imo.

Sweet Jesus what a straw man!

You also conveniently seemed to have forgotten the fact that the death penalty is way way way more expensive than life in prison. You want money to help those kids? Stop putting people to death.


The death penalty also does not have to be so expensive. Although the death penalty is legal, opponents claim that it costs much more to execute someone than it does for them to be in prison for life. The main reason for the high costs of the death penalty (and the length) are the amount of appeals people can do. You can have dozens of appeals - which can take decades - before finally being executed. All jurisdictions have appellate courts; however according to the Supreme Court case of McKane v. Durston, "there is no constitutional right to have a conviction or sentence examined by an appellate court." Even if we have appellate courts, the court can legally limit each convicted person on death row to only one or two appeals before execution, therefore cutting a lot of the costs and time associated with being on death row.



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McDonaldsGuy said:

You're the one that said 89% prefer life over death; not me.

89% IS NOT FUCKING EVERYONE

I'm done...I'm done...I can't take it anymore. Just kill me and get it over with. This is worse than any painless death could ever hope to be...



sundin13 said:
McDonaldsGuy said:

You're the one that said 89% prefer life over death; not me.

89% IS NOT FUCKING EVERYONE

I'm done...I'm done...I can't take it anymore. Just kill me and get it over with. This is worse than any painless death could ever hope to be...


Look up "hyperbole." When I say "everyone," I do not literally mean 100% - and if you're arguing this point you shouldn't get into debating. 89% is enough to confidently say everyone. You know when you try to say most prisoners prefer death over life you shouldn't link to me a website that says 97.5% (with an estimation of 11%) of them prefer life to death.



McDonaldsGuy said:
sundin13 said:
McDonaldsGuy said:

You're the one that said 89% prefer life over death; not me.

89% IS NOT FUCKING EVERYONE

I'm done...I'm done...I can't take it anymore. Just kill me and get it over with. This is worse than any painless death could ever hope to be...


Look up "hyperbole." When I say "everyone," I do not literally mean 100% - and if you're arguing this point you shouldn't get into debating. 89% is enough to confidently say everyone. You know when you try to say most prisoners prefer death over life you shouldn't link to me a website that says 97.5% (with a estimation of 11%) of them prefer life to death.


Yes, the use of Hyperbole in debates surrounding statistics is a super great way to get a point across without sounding like a total buffoon.

Additionally, I never said most! Stop putting words in my mouth! However, 11-13% is a clearly statistically significant amount, so no, it isn't insignificant enough to confidently say "everyone" (and again, while the comparisons with the general population are difficult, this whole conversation becomes laughable when you factor suicide statistics into the mix).

Finally, the decision between life imprisonment and the death penalty isn't exactly simple. Its not just making a simple choice between the two options. Appeals in death penalty cases offer the potential for freedom, so that sliver of a hope makes the decision much more complicated and obviously skews it in a certain direction.



Let the thread die, it's already dying pretty quickly. Pretty unbearable to read.



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

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McDonaldsGuy said:
Normchacho said:
 

DNA isn't helping free these people. More than a third of them are already dead due to prosecutors overstating the importance of forensic evidence. DNA put them where they are now.

There is a huge diffeence between a recognized execution of an innocent person and the actual execution of an innocent person.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/28/death-penalty-study-4-percent-defendants-innocent

“If you look at the numbers in our study, at how many errors are made, then you cannot believe that we haven’t executed any innocent person – that would be wishful thinking.”

 

As I said before though, there is no acceptable margin of error for executions. Especially when there isn't a societal benefit to the executions in the first place.

FBI corruption put them in there - not the death penalty, and corruption needs to be punished (it isn't currently). There are a ton of false rape accusations should we quit taking rape accusations seriously? No. It's t he liars that are the problem.

And hair samples aren't DNA evidence - they are extremely flawed evidence and I do think it's stupid how people can get convicted based on that. Which is why I think we need death penalty reform.

And there are many societal benefits for executions. Why do you care so much what happens to some murderer anyway? I think we should not only be for the death penalty; we should be OBLIGATED to be for it. We should be happy when someone who made the world shittier finally goes. My sympathy is reserved 100% for the victims. What if your mother was a victim? Your best friend? It disgusts me how much people are for these murderer's lives.


Why are you so against rehabilitation? It functions, statistically. Everyone sympathises with the victims, and it is our duty to reduce the number of these. But if killing the murderer doesn't help to do so, statistically, why would one do it?



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Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

For. Prison is a money-pit. Why should innocent people pay for vicious criminals to be fed, looked after and entertained?



sundin13 said:

However, 11-13% is a clearly statistically significant amount, so no, it isn't


No it's not.



palou said:
McDonaldsGuy said:
Normchacho said:
 

DNA isn't helping free these people. More than a third of them are already dead due to prosecutors overstating the importance of forensic evidence. DNA put them where they are now.

There is a huge diffeence between a recognized execution of an innocent person and the actual execution of an innocent person.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/28/death-penalty-study-4-percent-defendants-innocent

“If you look at the numbers in our study, at how many errors are made, then you cannot believe that we haven’t executed any innocent person – that would be wishful thinking.”

 

As I said before though, there is no acceptable margin of error for executions. Especially when there isn't a societal benefit to the executions in the first place.

FBI corruption put them in there - not the death penalty, and corruption needs to be punished (it isn't currently). There are a ton of false rape accusations should we quit taking rape accusations seriously? No. It's t he liars that are the problem.

And hair samples aren't DNA evidence - they are extremely flawed evidence and I do think it's stupid how people can get convicted based on that. Which is why I think we need death penalty reform.

And there are many societal benefits for executions. Why do you care so much what happens to some murderer anyway? I think we should not only be for the death penalty; we should be OBLIGATED to be for it. We should be happy when someone who made the world shittier finally goes. My sympathy is reserved 100% for the victims. What if your mother was a victim? Your best friend? It disgusts me how much people are for these murderer's lives.


Why are you so against rehabilitation? It functions, statistically. Everyone sympathises with the victims, and it is our duty to reduce the number of these. But if killing the murderer doesn't help to do so, statistically, why would one do it?


I am for rehabilitation for non-violent offenders/low class violent offenders.



McDonaldsGuy said:
Normchacho said:
 

DNA isn't helping free these people. More than a third of them are already dead due to prosecutors overstating the importance of forensic evidence. DNA put them where they are now.

There is a huge diffeence between a recognized execution of an innocent person and the actual execution of an innocent person.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/28/death-penalty-study-4-percent-defendants-innocent

“If you look at the numbers in our study, at how many errors are made, then you cannot believe that we haven’t executed any innocent person – that would be wishful thinking.”

 

As I said before though, there is no acceptable margin of error for executions. Especially when there isn't a societal benefit to the executions in the first place.

FBI corruption put them in there - not the death penalty, and corruption needs to be punished (it isn't currently). There are a ton of false rape accusations should we quit taking rape accusations seriously? No. It's t he liars that are the problem.

And hair samples aren't DNA evidence - they are extremely flawed evidence and I do think it's stupid how people can get convicted based on that. Which is why I think we need death penalty reform.

And there are many societal benefits for executions. Why do you care so much what happens to some murderer anyway? I think we should not only be for the death penalty; we should be OBLIGATED to be for it. We should be happy when someone who made the world shittier finally goes. My sympathy is reserved 100% for the victims. What if your mother was a victim? Your best friend? It disgusts me how much people are for these murderer's lives.

What kind of death penalty reform? You want to limit appeals so that it goes quicker AND make sure it's more accurate? Please, elighten us as to how that works.

Your last paragraph is borderline sociopathic, not to mention another huge straw man. It also doesn't actually point out a single benefit to the death penalty, but I'll indulge.

I don't care about what happens to the 96 people who are put to death that are guilty, my concern is the 4 innocent people that would be put to death along side them. Not too mention that it isn't 500 AD and we are so far beyond the need for the death penalty that it has about as much place in our legal system as bloodsport does on ESPN.

If  someone I love was murdered, I'd want to tear the killer apart with my bare hands. LUCKILY! We don't live in a society that allows for revenge justice since in that case I would likely be the least qualified person on the face of the earth to make any decision regarding the trail or legal proccess.



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I bet that on launch the Nintendo Switch will have no built in in-game voice chat. He bets that it will. The winner gets six months of avatar control over the other user.