By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft - Digital Foundry vs Xbox One backwards compatibility

OnlyForDisplay on 22 June 2015
jlmurph2 said:
OnlyForDisplay said:
Would this put the nail in the coffin for the excitement people had of backwards compatibility? Would this also mean that software emulation isn't the method that should be utilized for backwards compatibility?


Either way, looking at such a downgrade doesn't help the limited list Microsoft has revealed. Hopefully these issues are somehow solved if software emulation is a workaround. If not, would Microsoft forgo into more cross platform play with PC?

MS hasn't revealed a list of the fall launch games yet. These are beta games for preview members.

Vsync is the reason for this. All MS has to do is add a choice to turn it off.


Oops! I apologize Murph-San. Misread the announcement regarding the current batch of games that out. Much appreciated for clearing that up for me!



" It has never been about acknowledgement when you achieve something. When you are acknowledged, then and only then can you achieve something. Always have your friends first to achieve your goals later." - OnlyForDisplay

Around the Network
OnlyForDisplay on 22 June 2015
Mr Puggsly said:
OnlyForDisplay said:
Would this put the nail in the coffin for the excitement people had of backwards compatibility? Would this also mean that software emulation isn't the method that should be utilized for backwards compatibility?


Either way, looking at such a downgrade doesn't help the limited list Microsoft has revealed. Hopefully these issues are somehow solved if software emulation is a workaround. If not, would Microsoft forgo into more cross platform play with PC?

Software is emulation is a fine method, MS already said the emulator is still in development. Many games get patched to improve performance, I would expect the same for this emulator.

If they can enable screen tear than X1 BC will perform at par with the actual 360 hardware. While still seeing improvments in loading and texture pop in.

For some reason I have access to a few X1 BC titles already. I tested Geometry Wars and Toy Soldiers, they work great. No performance issues I can determine with my eyes.

 

Ah, I see. Either way, glad to hear that this issue can be corrected after all!

 

Thank you Puggsly-San! Much Appreciated!



" It has never been about acknowledgement when you achieve something. When you are acknowledged, then and only then can you achieve something. Always have your friends first to achieve your goals later." - OnlyForDisplay

Protendo on 22 June 2015
Mr Puggsly said:
ethomaz said:

Protendo said:


You should read his posts again. He said that evidence/reports show it's better than the original.

When I was playing it I was l like that screen tearing...that framerate.   It gets worse if you keep reading. I'm very sensitive to screen tearing, so I'm glad this article came out to verify the problems I had.

Nobody can say ME1 runs better on Xbone... it runs way worst than the original on 360 (the original already have a lot of pop in and screen teraring... the Xbone emulation makes the things worst).

The only think is better is the loadtimes.

You're actually very wrong.

The frame rate is worse on X1 primarily due to lack of screen tear. However, the X1 version has little texture pop in and faster load times.

So pick your poison. Better frame rate on 360 or better textures, faster loading, and no screen tear on X1.


I suggest you play it.  It might be less than the original (I couldn't finish the original due to screen tearing), but during frame drops it's apparent.  The frame drops are also jarring.



How are the next-gen consoles trending on social media?  Why are they popular? Join Social Media Monthly to find out what everyone is talking about!

"And everyone's Kickstarter has merit." - Malory Archer 

captain carot on 22 June 2015

it has its problems right now. as well as some sunny spots.

i'd really say wait and see. software solutions can improve extremely with new releases.

as for mass effect, that game even has strange performance issues on a real 360.



beeje13 on 22 June 2015

Well they're trying, and that counts for some kudos. And it's still in beta, so things might improve.

It doesn't look good for CPU heavy games, unless they can emulate the code more efficiently.



PS, PS2, Gameboy Advance, PS3, PSP, PS4, Xbox One

Around the Network
TheSting on 22 June 2015
Protendo said:
Mr Puggsly said:
ethomaz said:

Protendo said:


You should read his posts again. He said that evidence/reports show it's better than the original.

When I was playing it I was l like that screen tearing...that framerate.   It gets worse if you keep reading. I'm very sensitive to screen tearing, so I'm glad this article came out to verify the problems I had.

Nobody can say ME1 runs better on Xbone... it runs way worst than the original on 360 (the original already have a lot of pop in and screen teraring... the Xbone emulation makes the things worst).

The only think is better is the loadtimes.

You're actually very wrong.

The frame rate is worse on X1 primarily due to lack of screen tear. However, the X1 version has little texture pop in and faster load times.

So pick your poison. Better frame rate on 360 or better textures, faster loading, and no screen tear on X1.


I suggest you play it.  It might be less than the original (I couldn't finish the original due to screen tearing), but during frame drops it's apparent.  The frame drops are also jarring.


It's in Beta dude. Beta



pbroy on 22 June 2015
Protendo said:
d21lewis said:


We didn't call you a liar! Now add me on Xbox, dammit!

You should read his posts again. He said that evidence/reports show it's better than the original.

When I was playing it I was l like that screen tearing...that framerate.   It gets worse if you keep reading. I'm very sensitive to screen tearing, so I'm glad this article came out to verify the problems I had. 


You should twitch the problem areas and show us. What's your gamertag?Just like most people, I too like to see M$' failures. Gives me a boner.

VGChartz♥♥♥♥♥FOREVER
Xbone... the new "N" word   Apparently I troll MS now | Evidence | Evidence
SvennoJ on 22 June 2015
nanarchy said:
CosmicSex said:


Whats wrong is the 10 FPS framerate.  I was expecting better and like everyone has pointed out, this doesn't bode well for something like GTA.  I mean,  PSNow runs at 30 FPS. I hope it improves but for now I think plaing on Xbox 360 is the best approach. 

Actually it bodes very ery well for them. ME was a really poorly built game, games that utilise the DX API's in more standard manner with efficient engines and a consistent experience on the 360 "should" be far easier to get a similiar or better experience on the One. For such an early beta it is astonishing that it works as well as it does considering the VM will be riddled with both bugs and a lot of debug code which will affect performance, it is looking very interesting, though useless to me till I see the couple of games I really want listed.

It's the opposite. Early games use the API in a standard manner, still getting famililiar with the hardware, playing it safe.
Later games concentrate on the fastest methods, use shortcuts where available, and indeed use optimized engines that attempt to use as many of the available cpu and gpu cycles as possible. This will tax emulation more. Emulation is not 1:1, some things will perform faster like loading data for example, others will go slower due to the fact that all threads are now distributed over different processors and the slower ESram.

More efficient code is harder to emulate as there is less breathing room for the emulator to keep up.

Debug code is not compiled with the release version btw. The software can of course be optimized, yet there are some hard limits with the differences in architecture. It will be very interesting to see how much they can pull off.



Mr Puggsly on 22 June 2015
Protendo said:


 

 

 


I suggest you play it.  It might be less than the original (I couldn't finish the original due to screen tearing), but during frame drops it's apparent.  The frame drops are also jarring.

Well I played through Mass Effect on the 360. The frame rate during combat was almost unplayable sometimes due to choppiness. I recall the final battle being a mess.

The problem with this emulator is it doesent do screen tear and that impacts the frame rate. Wii U has a simular issue with some ports. No screen tear but lower frame rates compared to 7th gen ports. The Mass Effect on actual 360 hardware would probably run about the same as X1's BC if vsync was enabled.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

torok on 22 June 2015
daredevil.shark said:
Teeqoz said:
While the virtual machine code will of course improve, the later in the gen the games were released, the more demanding they are, so it makes me a bit sceptical to how, for instance, Halo 4 would run.

What could be really interesting though, would be if next gen, MS releases an official 360 emulator for PC (considering they are likely to ditch xbox next gen). Sell the software (the emulator) itself for 60$, and games for anything between 5 and 10 dollars a piece.


Essencially its an emulator.

I think that we can't affirm that yet. However, as the architecture is wildly different, I think that we are looking at an emulator here. But it could also be an hybrid hypervisor layer that does a combo of emulator and VM.



Bet with jetforcejiminy: PS4 will pass the Wii lifetime numbers.