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Forums - Microsoft - The Great Microsoft E3 Bluff: Xbox 360 Backwards Compatibility

globalisateur said:
I still believe the game are simply (well painfully) ported (at least a some piece of it), not 100% emulated. For instance apparently Perfect dark now runs at 1080p on XB1, so it's definitely not 100% emulated, some parts of the code have being obviously modified.

The only thing to be determined is to know how much of the game is emulated, how much is painfully ported.


Painfully ported? What? And how do you know that Perfect Dark now renders 1080p internally? "Apparently, obviously" Well, not really. Your choice of words is at least interesting.



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who cares, if the xbone is natively backwards compatible, when you can play your 360 games on the xbox one natively?
and that's all they said and promised. not "you can put in your 360 game discs and our x1 was always a 360, too"

and they also said, they need publisher permission and can't do "special hardware required games"



i know, you like to be negative on this microsoft stuff, but this is just ur biased opinion



I don't see emulation as remotely feasible. We have to wait and see but I think it's best be cynical until they give details. Streaming ps now style seems most likely... But then why rely on you downloading the game. I don't know if they ruled it out. I turned onto their show halfway through the bc anouncment.



I'm pretty sure the guy on the Major Nelson thing said they have built a software emulator that gets included with each game. I got the impression that they basically just need to wrap the ISO in the emulator code and it will work. Some games might need a bit of a tweak but just minor stuff.



Tachikoma said:
Shackkobe said:

Fact #1: The Xbox One is not "natively" backwards compatible with the Xbox 360.

If it was, you would be able to stick a disk in and play or download your current 360 game and play. You cant.


in order to make it work the executables need to be modified a little to properly hook in to the hardware, in order to modify a game they need permission/licensing from the content owner, no license, no modification.

Fact #2: The Xbox One will never be "natively" backwards compatible with the Xbox 360.

Why? The Xbox One and Xbox 360 have irreconcilable hardware differences and the Xbox One is simply not powerful enough to run the 360 games via emulation.

Native would require physical xbox 360 hardware onboard.
The Xbox One however, is powerful enough to emulate the 360 when its primary executables been modified to redirect gpu, api and ui hooks to the xbox one system, so this "fact" is untrue.

Fact #3: Some Xbox 360 games are being ported over to the Xbox One and these ports are what Microsoft uses to claim backwards compatibility.

As illustrated above, the process requires modification to core files to properly work, this isn't porting, this is reconfiguration, the base system is still being emulated to match the original hardware, so again, this "fact" is untrue.

Fact #4: Some Xbox 360 games will never be included in this list.

Why? Each game needs to be ported individually and the host of bugs and performance optimizations needed to make the game work on Xbox One will overwhelm Microsoft engineers. Therefore, only select games will become "backwards compatible".

Each game needs to have the content owners permission and licensing to allow Microsoft to modify and redistribute a modifled and packed version of the game, again it is not being ported, its being emulated, backwards compatibility does not require universal support, and theyre not lying by saying that theyre introducing backwards compatibility, you are still able to run the supported games that you already own, on the new system, at no additional cost.

Some games use platform tricks to achieve certain effects, in these cases they would not work even with modification because the hacks and tricks used are so edeeply woven in with the game that the emulator cannot possibly accomodate it.

However, the fact that some games cannot be played disproves your "fact" about the games being ports, if they were genuinely porting the games theres no technical reason why some titles could never be ported.

 

 

You have at best opinons here, please don't pass them 

Nice try.

The Xbox 360 has more peak bandwidth than Xbox One (edram has 256 GBps) and executables can't make up for that. New code has to be written and tons of optimizations  need to be done.

Also 360 code is for Power PC and not X86. 

Even porting will be an issue.



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Shackkobe said:
Tachikoma said:


in order to make it work the executables need to be modified a little to properly hook in to the hardware, in order to modify a game they need permission/licensing from the content owner, no license, no modification.

Fact #2: The Xbox One will never be "natively" backwards compatible with the Xbox 360.

Why? The Xbox One and Xbox 360 have irreconcilable hardware differences and the Xbox One is simply not powerful enough to run the 360 games via emulation.

Native would require physical xbox 360 hardware onboard.
The Xbox One however, is powerful enough to emulate the 360 when its primary executables been modified to redirect gpu, api and ui hooks to the xbox one system, so this "fact" is untrue.

Fact #3: Some Xbox 360 games are being ported over to the Xbox One and these ports are what Microsoft uses to claim backwards compatibility.

As illustrated above, the process requires modification to core files to properly work, this isn't porting, this is reconfiguration, the base system is still being emulated to match the original hardware, so again, this "fact" is untrue.

Fact #4: Some Xbox 360 games will never be included in this list.

Why? Each game needs to be ported individually and the host of bugs and performance optimizations needed to make the game work on Xbox One will overwhelm Microsoft engineers. Therefore, only select games will become "backwards compatible".

Each game needs to have the content owners permission and licensing to allow Microsoft to modify and redistribute a modifled and packed version of the game, again it is not being ported, its being emulated, backwards compatibility does not require universal support, and theyre not lying by saying that theyre introducing backwards compatibility, you are still able to run the supported games that you already own, on the new system, at no additional cost.

Some games use platform tricks to achieve certain effects, in these cases they would not work even with modification because the hacks and tricks used are so edeeply woven in with the game that the emulator cannot possibly accomodate it.

However, the fact that some games cannot be played disproves your "fact" about the games being ports, if they were genuinely porting the games theres no technical reason why some titles could never be ported.

 

 

You have at best opinons here, please don't pass them 

Nice try.

The Xbox 360 has more peak bandwidth than Xbox One (edram has 256 GBps) and executables can't make up for that. New code has to be written and tons of optimizations  need to be done.

Also 360 code is Power PC and not X86. 

Even porting will be an issue.


Ok now, this is beyond funny. You don't have to explain the tech to people who already know more about it than you, you should read what they replied to you.



walsufnir said:
Shackkobe said:
Tachikoma said:


Ok now, this is beyond funny. You don't have to explain the tech to people who already know more about it than you, you should read what they replied to you.

I did. That's why I threw out a few facts ;)



I still don't get what the OP means is negative with X1 now giving us 360 owners 100 games by fall 2015 that are compatible.



vivster said:
None of your facts really distract from the fact that you will be able to play some of your last gen games on a current gen console without extra fee. Something that doesn't seem to be the norm anymore.

I own a fat lady with PS2 backwards compatibility and even that wasn't native or perfect backwards compatibility.

The term BC may be misleading and some people who don't research the facts will probably be disappointed but I don't see anything bad with adding a useful feature to your console.


The ps2 was nativley backwards compatible. It used the original ps1 cpu as a system cpu for the os and background. And the ps2 soundchip was made out of two ps1 soundchips.



Shackkobe said:

Nice try.

Thanks, it's great to know my many years experience developing on the PS1, GC, Wii, WiiU, Xbox, Xbox 360 and PS3, Xbox One and PS4 wasn't a total waste of my time.

It's cute that you think a theoretical peak internal performance of a 10mb edram block limited to 32gb/s link on GPU can outperform a 32mb esram block with a 100gb/s+ link to both GPU and CPU (apu package).