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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox One Backwards Compatibility Discussion Thread

 

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HOLY S*IT!!!!!!!!!!!! 145 72.14%
 
NO, NO!!! ITS NOT TRUE, P... 10 4.98%
 
YES, YES!!!!!!!! 45 22.39%
 
Total:200
DakonBlackblade said:
Seriously, beeing able to play old games wins E3 ? Its nice and all but PS3 was backwards compatible (initialy) and it did squat for the console.

Apples to oranges. PS3 was a $600 console with few  compelling games to cause someone to upgrade... Then BC was removed when the console became affordable. Adding to a reasonably priced console means a lot more. (Especially since the modern era is all about online multiplayer... The PS1/2 games the early PS3 could play didn't have that... So it was opening up a library that was showing it's age vs current tastes.)



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I tried the mode out. Turns out I own almost all of the games the offer up to this point except

-Alien Hominid
-Banjo Kazooie/Banjo Tooie
-Jetpack Refueled
-N+
-Small Arms
-Toy Soldiers

I have plenty to choose from. The game I figured would benefit the most was Mass Effect. I gave it a try (XBL was down for me until this morning. WTF?) and it worked great. Looked sharper, loaded faster, and ran smoother. Very impressive. The only problem is that I had to create a new profile. No DLC or ME2/ME3 support means I can't use my old saves. Oh well. It works!!



d21lewis said:
I tried the mode out. Turns out I own almost all of the games the offer up to this point except

-Alien Hominid
-Banjo Kazooie/Banjo Tooie
-Jetpack Refueled
-N+
-Small Arms
-Toy Soldiers

I have plenty to choose from. The game I figured would benefit the most was Mass Effect. I gave it a try (XBL was down for me until this morning. WTF?) and it worked great. Looked sharper, loaded faster, and ran smoother. Very impressive. The only problem is that I had to create a new profile. No DLC or ME2/ME3 support means I can't use my old saves. Oh well. It works!!

I'd be inclined to say "yet". this feature isn't released yet. There's no way they'd make the games available, but not the DLC (especially since it could encourage people to buy old DLC they missed). And ME 2/3 will definitely be added down the line.

And yeah, when I read this, ME was the first game that came to mind. I've wanted to replay the series for a while now... this could be the push I need.



Jereel Hunter said:
d21lewis said:
I tried the mode out. Turns out I own almost all of the games the offer up to this point except

-Alien Hominid
-Banjo Kazooie/Banjo Tooie
-Jetpack Refueled
-N+
-Small Arms
-Toy Soldiers

I have plenty to choose from. The game I figured would benefit the most was Mass Effect. I gave it a try (XBL was down for me until this morning. WTF?) and it worked great. Looked sharper, loaded faster, and ran smoother. Very impressive. The only problem is that I had to create a new profile. No DLC or ME2/ME3 support means I can't use my old saves. Oh well. It works!!

I'd be inclined to say "yet". this feature isn't released yet. There's no way they'd make the games available, but not the DLC (especially since it could encourage people to buy old DLC they missed). And ME 2/3 will definitely be added down the line.

And yeah, when I read this, ME was the first game that came to mind. I've wanted to replay the series for a while now... this could be the push I need.


Especially ME2 could be interesting as there is no digital release for this game available.



drkohler said:

I wonder if anyone understood that phrase..

Ok, here is the classical flow-chart how emulation has been done, the "brute force method"  (written for X360 emulation):

1. Grab a line of PPC code

2. Translate the code into x64 code(s)

3. Execute the x64 code

4. Go back to 1.

This usually works if the emulating system is considerably more powerful than the emulated system. The Cell ppu processor at 3GHz is good enough to emulate a measly PS1/2 processor, for example.  Now in the X360/XOne situation, there is absolutely no way a 1.7GHz mobile core can do the flow chart against a 3.2GHz PPC core. So bw compatibility has to be done in either of two ways.

Idea 1: Recompile the game source code from PPC code to x64 code, essentiall a complete code conversion.

Obviously this would work, but no company is going to give MS its entire source code. And even if MS had a boatload of software engineers, this would be prohibitively expensive. Not even MS has that money left just to enable playing old games for free.

Idea 2: Crosscompile the game code and create a X360 runtime library on the XBox One system (somewhat similar to the ucsd Pascal system on the ol' Apple II).

Basically what you do is run the game code (PPC code) through steps 1., 2. and 4. and generate an x64 code file (this would be an automatic process so you don't need a dozen engineers). What you also need is a translation (not an emulation!) of the entire X360 os/graphics libs into x64 code for the XBox One. Essentially a virtualised X360 os running on the XBox One. That sounds very complex but in reality is more of a "somebody has to do it" (probably massive) workload, because MS owns the source to all of this and knows exactly where original X360 PPC calls would have to go into the x64 code. 

What is actually used of the whole X360 os/graphics libs in some particular X360 game is overseeable so I'd expect that every X360 "x64 game file" you download is roughly 0.5-1G bigger than the "original" X360 game file). But I don't have an XBox One so I have no idea if that is actually true. If not it would shoot the theory down in all likelihood.

Of course if an X360 game used "tricks" (like self-modifying code like some copy protection stuff,  using the old Kinect, maybe even some peripheral like a driving wheel, etc), then the X360 emulation would crash and burn and cannot work. Hence you won 't ever see those games. Of course if the game company wants to sell a port again on the XBox One, you'll equally not see the original X360 game showing up ever on the list.

I agree with most, but the PS3 had physical PS1/PS2 chips inside.  It wasn't an emmulation as must as just some original hardware.  They dropped it when they made the first PS3 slim, and didn't add it back with the second PS3 slim 2.

The way they have the Xbox One set up to never run games off a disc but only the hard drive (Maybe it could, but they cept the emulator running off the Hard Drive.)  It's in the specs for the console - it's what the developers wanted rather than having to run things of the DVD as per the 360 requirments.   

Right now the emulator only works with the controller and not any USB devices including Kinect. 

From what I am seeing looks like the games are 5-10% larger on the Xbox One vs 360, but don't take that as cannon.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

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Sorry I did not realize at the time this was the defacto thread for Xbox BC discussion, so I'll leave my post here.

This really is a game changer and lends a great deal of goodwill to Microsoft for doing this. Since this also shows that they are committed to supporting the Xbox 360 marketplace. Which is great for people who have invested large amounts of money into these stores.

Like others already said, this will make it easier for 360 owners to decide what to upgrade to, as many have still not done so.

This was also done with no charge to the end user and Microsoft needs to keep driving that point.



I played about 5 hrs of ME already. The texture pop seemed to reappear after a few hours. Still, nice and quiet and with the X1 features.

Here's an annoying facto though.

After loading a couple of old characters to the cloud on 360 I tried to do the same with Pinnacle Station and Bring Down The Sky and could not. PS asked me to pay my $5 again when I used DL history to redownload, BDTS came though for free but wouldn't let me copy to Cloud Storage (too big).

Sooo. While the X1 asked me for MS acct info and downloaded my profile and game saves I can't use them because the DDL content used to create said saves is not available. Which you will agree kinda sukz. Just when they were doing so well Effectively it's new game or nothing.

Ah, this is very early in beta. They'll get this done right.



Recon1O1 said:
I played about 5 hrs of ME already. The texture pop seemed to reappear after a few hours. Still, nice and quiet and with the X1 features.

Here's an annoying facto though.

After loading a couple of old characters to the cloud on 360 I tried to do the same with Pinnacle Station and Bring Down The Sky and could not. PS asked me to pay my $5 again when I used DL history to redownload, BDTS came though for free but wouldn't let me copy to Cloud Storage (too big).

Sooo. While the X1 asked me for MS acct info and downloaded my profile and game saves I can't use them because the DDL content used to create said saves is not available. Which you will agree kinda sukz. Just when they were doing so well Effectively it's new game or nothing.

Ah, this is very early in beta. They'll get this done right.

Its nice to know its working quite well. I don't have any of the games on the list, though I am excited for the games coming this holiday. People can say "oh, it doesn't matter" but I think its a nice extra.



The dlc for ME came through today. Let me load an old renegade save it wouldn't before. So I killed Saren, sacrificed The Council and made Udina Emperor again. Game looks pretty damn good. Then started a new playthrough on Insanity. Gears 1 last week. Point is they're getting this s**t done.

I'll get back to this after about 900 hours of F4 and ROTR.