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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why do Zelda Console games take 5 years to develop.... ?

Jon-Erich said:

1. Because you're dealing with newer, more spohisticated technology and bigger games. That requires more man hours. It's a common issues the industry is having. All things considering, development times for the console games have been somewhat consistant.

2. I don't like to count pre-production times. Pre-production is done during the development of the previous games, meaning that they couldn't start working on the next game until the previous one is finished. In pre-production, a teams size, development cycle, and budget are being considered. Again, this is a normal thing in the industry and has nothing to do with Aonima's inability to get a game out at a decent time.

3. He's not creating an open world game because he's out of ideas. He specifically said he has always wanted to create an open world game like what was on the NES but the technology wasn't there that allowed him to do such a thing in a 3D environment. If anything Aonuma has ideas that are thought of years ahead of time but he has to pick the right game for those ideas to be utilized. With Zelda HD, his ideas for that game could not be done before.

You don't get to discount pre-production. It's part of the development process and where a lot of story, art, and character design is done. The dozens of artists on staff do a lot of work during these periods and this time is attributed to that game.  If you cut out pre-production, then nearly all of the development hell games you hear about have half or shorter dev times. It's deceiving.



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Pavolink said:
Jon-Erich said:

1. Because you're dealing with newer, more spohisticated technology and bigger games. That requires more man hours. It's a common issues the industry is having. All things considering, development times for the console games have been somewhat consistant.

2. I don't like to count pre-production times. Pre-production is done during the development of the previous games, meaning that they couldn't start working on the next game until the previous one is finished. In pre-production, a teams size, development cycle, and budget are being considered. Again, this is a normal thing in the industry and has nothing to do with Aonima's inability to get a game out at a decent time.

3. He's not creating an open world game because he's out of ideas. He specifically said he has always wanted to create an open world game like what was on the NES but the technology wasn't there that allowed him to do such a thing in a 3D environment. If anything Aonuma has ideas that are thought of years ahead of time but he has to pick the right game for those ideas to be utilized. With Zelda HD, his ideas for that game could not be done before.

3. He specifically mentioned the open world and Zelda NES. If the NES was able to handled an open world there's no excuse for the subsequent hardware.

Yes, he specifically mentioned big open world and freedom like was at beginning in Zelda NES.

When they later went full 3D Zelda game, they couldn't go again with big open world and freedom because of limitations of hardwares, till Wii U arived.



Pavolink said:
LipeJJ said:
Well, the later games usually have a big amount of dungeons, which must be difficult do design since they're pretty complex. Also, the Zelda team usually makes big changes in the middle of the development, which I think is the main reason why it take so long. They also take some time to experiment which art direction to go. So that's enough reasons already, but this time specifically, it's also the first Zelda in HD AND the game seems to have a huge open world. So I think that's why.

Ocarina of Time has 12 dungeons...

Majora's Mask 6...

The Wind Waker only 7...

Twilight Princess 10 and counting the Cave of Ordeals as one...

Skyward Sword 8 and counting the Pirate's Strongholds as one...


I thought MM had 5. But anyways, I know this, but if you stop to think about it... since Majora's the number went up, except for SS. It also became harder to develop new engines for more powerful systems. During the N64 era games would come after 2 years without big problems, everything was easier (I kinda miss those days).



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I think the more important issue is when Nintendo starts making the game. VS how long it takes. Great, the game takes 5 years. We know this process is a complicated matter. But they do have planning issues, when they make games. If this happened on TV shows. They be cancelled after one season.

A TV show is made several months to almost a year in advance, before airing. So when you saw that season 1 cliffhanger. 5 episodes where already being planned/written for season 2. To get stuff completed on time. Nintendo needs to start building Zelda games before the generation ends. So that when that zelda comes out during year 3 or 4. The next one is ready at the next generations year 2. Nintendo talking about first time making a HD zelda, is really sad. They basically admitted to no one, on their teams ,did HD tests for Zelda. Till the main build phase started.

No internal demos. No use of portions of Skyward Sword. To test how long a room would take to build in HD, than in SD. Nothing? That be like people in the movie/TV industry designing an outfit. Picking it. It's made for the actor. And they just start filming. When the outfits need to go in front of camera, for testing. To see if it works. Or feels right for the actor.



Simple, Nintendo is still adapting to HD. Many recent nintendo games have taken a longer than anticipated development time due to this. Nintendo was probably in for a shock when they realized just how difficult making an HD open world game for the first time to certain fan expectations was gonna be



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archer9234 said:

I think the more important issue is when Nintendo starts making the game. VS how long it takes. Great, the game takes 5 years. We know this process is a complicated matter. But they do have planning issues, when they make games. If this happened on TV shows. They be cancelled after one season.

A TV show is made several months to almost a year in advance, before airing. So when you saw that season 1 cliffhanger. 5 episodes where already being planned/written for season 2. To get stuff completed on time. Nintendo needs to start building Zelda games before the generation ends. So that when that zelda comes out during year 3 or 4. The next one is ready at the next generations year 2. Nintendo talking about first time making a HD zelda, is really sad. They basically admitted to no one, on their teams ,did HD tests for Zelda. Till the main build phase started.

No internal demos. No use of portions of Skyward Sword. To test how long a room would take to build in HD, than in SD. Nothing? That be like people in the movie/TV industry designing an outfit. Picking it. It's made for the actor. And they just start filming. When the outfits need to go in front of camera, for testing. To see if it works. Or feels right for the actor.

This. Prettu much this. They are innefficient.

 

LipeJJ said:


I thought MM had 5. But anyways, I know this, but if you stop to think about it... since Majora's the number went up, except for SS. It also became harder to develop new engines for more powerful systems. During the N64 era games would come after 2 years without big problems, everything was easier (I kinda miss those days).

During the N64 era they faced the worst problem: translate the franchise to 3D.



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

Predictions for Nintendo NX and Mobile


Pavolink said:
archer9234 said:

I think the more important issue is when Nintendo starts making the game. VS how long it takes. Great, the game takes 5 years. We know this process is a complicated matter. But they do have planning issues, when they make games. If this happened on TV shows. They be cancelled after one season.

A TV show is made several months to almost a year in advance, before airing. So when you saw that season 1 cliffhanger. 5 episodes where already being planned/written for season 2. To get stuff completed on time. Nintendo needs to start building Zelda games before the generation ends. So that when that zelda comes out during year 3 or 4. The next one is ready at the next generations year 2. Nintendo talking about first time making a HD zelda, is really sad. They basically admitted to no one, on their teams ,did HD tests for Zelda. Till the main build phase started.

No internal demos. No use of portions of Skyward Sword. To test how long a room would take to build in HD, than in SD. Nothing? That be like people in the movie/TV industry designing an outfit. Picking it. It's made for the actor. And they just start filming. When the outfits need to go in front of camera, for testing. To see if it works. Or feels right for the actor.

This. Prettu much this. They are innefficient.

 

LipeJJ said:


I thought MM had 5. But anyways, I know this, but if you stop to think about it... since Majora's the number went up, except for SS. It also became harder to develop new engines for more powerful systems. During the N64 era games would come after 2 years without big problems, everything was easier (I kinda miss those days).

During the N64 era they faced the worst problem: translate the franchise to 3D.

But their first 3D LoZ knocked it out of the park and is still the highest sold in the franchise as well as the highest overall rated game of all time. Just saying that certain problems will take different amounts of time to overcome. It almost seemed like Mario and LoZ almost went to 3D like it was second nature. Sonic's problem is how do you retain a fast game that incorperates 3D (they shouldn't have once they realized their games couldn't really do much beyond the Adventure titles and reverted back to 2D when they became a 3rd party dev). Making a game that is HD and retains a high frame rate I think would be tougher than just making 3D polygon games. Maybe Nintendo just makes it look easy. 



bigtakilla said:

But their first 3D LoZ knocked it out of the park and is still the highest sold in the franchise as well as the highest overall rated game of all time. Just saying that certain problems will take different amounts of time to overcome. It almost seemed like Mario and LoZ almost went to 3D like it was second nature. Sonic's problem is how do you retain a fast game that incorperates 3D (they shouldn't have once they realized their games couldn't really do much beyond the Adventure titles and reverted back to 2D when they became a 3rd party dev). Making a game that is HD and retains a high frame rate I think would be tougher than just making 3D polygon games. Maybe Nintendo just makes it look easy. 

I disagree.

They have to find the bases and nature of the Zelda franchise in a 3D space. For example, Miyamoto stated that in the first phase of the project, Zelda 64 was something like Mario 64: Link will be all the time in Ganon's Castle (hub) and will enter different dungeons, but all the time in the same big dungeon. That without counting mechanics (like the Z-targeting), artstyle, weapons, puzzles, etc.

Making an HD game with the bases already in their hands is easier than the development of Ocarina of Time, a game whose many ideas where left for a sequel/expansion (Gaiden=Majora's Mask) or never released (Zelda Ura).



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

Predictions for Nintendo NX and Mobile


Hopefully a TP gets a HD remake for this year. Seen some retailers list Dec 2016 for the new Zelda.



Random_Matt said:
Hopefully a TP gets a HD remake for this year. Seen some retailers list Dec 2016 for the new Zelda.

Which retailers?

I know is a placeholder but didn't know about it.



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

Predictions for Nintendo NX and Mobile