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Forums - Nintendo - NintendOUYA vs Ps4tendo

If Nintendo would just release a machine with decent specifications, they would get 3rd party games and do well.

You aren't going to convert fans very easily, and shouldn't count on it. There are typically only converts when a company ducks up really hard. What Nintendo needs to do is convince people that they are the only console they need. Have all the 3rd party games, PLUS MARIO.

They need to make it a matter of "Mario or Kratos or Master Chief", not "Mario or EVERYTHING ELSE".



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freebs2 said:
midrange said:
freebs2 said:

 


Hmmmm, that's a very cool way of looking at things.

Well, going off of that a NintendOUYA console only sets itself up for failure. Having completely inferior tech than the competition and similar specs to a smartphone renders it obsolete from a technological push standpoint.

That leaves the demand pull. It seems that the most distinct feature of a $100 nintendo console is the ability to play nintendo games. But at that point, you may as well get a bundled 2ds or 3ds (this point is also hurting the wii u). Sure you can't plug that into a tv, but you can play on the go. And at this point, the 3ds already plays many of the wii u games

mario kart 7 (mario kart 8)

smash bros 3ds (smash bros wii u)

mario 3d land (mario 3d world)

lego city chase begins (lego city undercover)

rayman origins (rayman legends)

monster hunter tri (monster hunter 4)

new super mario bros 2 (new super mario bros U)

the list goes on ... Therefore there is no demand pull. Honestly making a PS4tendo seems to be the only reasonable option in the future. As long as it is done right, it seems to be the safest way of gaining momentum and revenue.

To make clear. Demand pull does mean you design an innovation in order to meet an expresseed (or unexpressed) customer need, the innovation is driven by watching the market. Tecnological push does mean you design a tecnological innovation, and then you try later to convince the market your innovation is usefull (create a new need).

Well you've actually nailed one part of the problem here. 3DS is killing off WiiU sales, beacuse right now the only reason to own a Nintendo console is to play Nintendo games and 3DS right now is a much more convient way to access those games for the average joe. If ever, this further proves a part of the market wants Nintendo games but there's no need for a Ps4tendo.


Yes, if a Ps4tendo was created for the sole purpose of playing nintendo games, I would agree with you. But according to the post, the ps4tendo would have all major 3rd party support. Therefore games that cannot exist on the 3ds (the witcher 3, skyrim, destiny, Batman, borderlands, GTA, far cry, ...) suddenly can be played on a console that can also play big AAA Nintendo games (metroid prime, legend of zelda, pikmin, ...). This is the demand pull I am referring to. The wii u cannot due this because it is literally a pain to develop for (no x86 architecture, last gen cpu, mediocre gpu, ...) compared to the competition, meaning weak 3rd party support, meaning a lack of games. The wii u isn't failing because it has no good games (bayonetta 2, smash, and mario kart counter this), it is failing because it is missing the other great 3rd party games. But this can all be reasonably rectified next gen while also having reasonably impressive specs.



Azuren said:

If Nintendo would just release a machine with decent specifications, they would get 3rd party games and do well.

You aren't going to convert fans very easily, and shouldn't count on it. There are typically only converts when a company ducks up really hard. What Nintendo needs to do is convince people that they are the only console they need. Have all the 3rd party games, PLUS MARIO.

They need to make it a matter of "Mario or Kratos or Master Chief", not "Mario or EVERYTHING ELSE".


1000 times this!!!

This is why the wii u is in huge trouble



Bofferbrauer said:
Soundwave said:

The GameCube kinda showed though that even at $99.99, Nintendo was easily being outsold by the PS2 and even the XBox.

So I'm not sure if simply having just a cheap system alone really is the be all, end all. The GameCube only got to 22 million, and it was $99.99 for like half of its life cycle.

My personal feeling -- don't make just one console. 

That's supposedly the whole point of the NX concept per speculation no? Multiple hardware lines that play the same ecosystem of software? Why not have multiple options then?

NX Tablet - Portable of course. 500 GFLOPS. 

NX Family Console - Classic Nintendo console, small form factor, 1 TFLOP processing power. New type of gimmicky controller (though not super expensive) Cheap $249.99 MSRP. 

NX Pro Console - Made more for the needs of the Western market. 3 TFLOP processor (this will be noticably better than a PS4). Larger console size. $349.99 MSRP. 

A game like Super Mario Galaxy 3 (hypothetical) could run at 960x540 with low effects and no anti-aliasing on the NX Tablet, but at 1920x1080 (full HD) resolution with higher end effects on the NX Pro Console. The NX Family Console (Famicom!) can run the game somewhere in between, 720p resolution with medium effects. 

There are some problems there though. We already had some similar things in the and none of them worked out.

Sega came with the 32X, NEC with the TurbographX (base Model was the CoregraphX). Both failed for the same reason: The extended model could also run the games of the base model but not vice-versa. Thus the base model had a much bigger Install base and everyone produced games for them, as that one was more viable to bring profits. It's also why the Commodore Amiga failed (apart from piracy, every game was copied by the shitton and then some): While later models had vastly expanded capacities, everyone was still programming for a basic Amiga 500.

You can bring both side by side, but that confuses the consumers even more than Nintendo did by naming the Wii U so close to it's predecessor. Also goes for the games themselves: If they have different sections (and thus different boxes) in videogame stores, it will confuse the consumers even further; If they don't and use the same support, well, it will still confuse the users since those with the smaller model ain't sure it works on his model while those of the extended model are not sure to get anything more or different than the base model.

Oh, and you meant probably 3 TFLOPS processing power, not processor. Most of the processing power is delivered by the graphics chip, not the CPU.

The 3 Teraflops model also comes with an additional problem right now: It's actually too powerful. And thus produces too much heat for such a small case a console uses (RROD, anyone?). We will have to wait until 14/16nm processes are widespread enough with good yield rates to reduce the TDP to affordable levels for a console (which is ~170W max, Wii U is at 45W, but in an even smaller casing), but also for other technical advances in instructions both for CPU and GPU. Which all means such a model wouldn't come out before holyday 2017 at the earliest, with 2018 or even 2019 being much more realistic. Oh, and the price would be higher than 349$ for that one, that's for sure. Even more with Nintendo, who doesn't like to sell hardware at a loss.


The 32X is 20 years ago, Commodore is 30+ years ago. I think it's fair to say the electronics world is different today. Things like the Sega Channel (online network) failed in the 90s too, that doesn't mean online networking didn't eventually take off. Palm Pilots and PDAs kinda failed in the 90s too, but smartphones took off like a rocket in the 2000s. 30 years ago, there weren't like tons of choices in electronics. 

Today you can buy a Macbook Air, Macbook, Macbook Pro depending on what your needs are, but they all basically run the same OS and same software applications. iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch, again similar concept. In today's world the consumer has choice, and we are used to that and choice is good. Why should I buy a Macbook Pro if all I need is a Macbook Air?

I'm suggesting ALL games play on ALL variants too, just at different settings (resolution, effects), much like PC games work on a wide range of PC hardware. So that you don't have the issue of "I don't have hardware version X, so now I can't play this game". 

Also the consoles could be different sizes, "one size fits all" is becoming a tired line of reasoning IMO. The Pro version could be bigger. Even back in the day look at the size difference between a US NES and a Japanese Famicom:

I'm guessing the NX concept will use mobile parts too all the way up from the bottom to the top, so mobile processors akin to the Tegra X1. Just scale the chips up or down, but they should have fairly low power consumption and small size foot print. 



"I'm guessing using mobile parts too all the way up from the bottom to the top, so mobile processors akin to the Tegra X1. Just scale the chips up or down, but they should have fairly low power consumption. "

You can have one of those already:

 



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JRPGfan said:

"I'm guessing using mobile parts too all the way up from the bottom to the top, so mobile processors akin to the Tegra X1. Just scale the chips up or down, but they should have fairly low power consumption. "

You can have one of those already:

 


Nintendo will still likely get a custom component built for them it'll just be based around mobile tech. 

Also Ouya is not really designed to be that powerful. But you could build a pretty damn powerful machine even if you took say three Apple A8x processors (three of the ones inside the current iPad Air) ... you'd likely have something considerably more powerful than a Wii U and approaching an XB1/PS4. 

A Tegra X1 (a mobile processor) can run Crysis 3 native. So the days of mobile chips being able to do rudimentary console style graphics are coming to a close. 



I could see Nintendo getting 16nm mobile chips from ARM + AMD too, the next iPhone (6s) coming this fall is supposedly going to use a 16nm chip:

http://www.macrumors.com/2014/08/25/tsmc-16nm-a9/

Assuming a late 2016-spring 2017 type launch for a proposed NX "family" of hardware devices, 16nm might very well be in play.



Soundwave said:
I could see Nintendo getting 16nm mobile chips from ARM + AMD too, the next iPhone (6s) coming this fall is supposedly going to use a 16nm chip:

http://www.macrumors.com/2014/08/25/tsmc-16nm-a9/

Assuming a late 2016-spring 2017 type launch for a proposed NX "family" of hardware devices, 16nm might very well be in play.


Would be big and the "ideal" time to pull a quick on over on Playstation and Xbox.

Make a more powerfull consol, thats cheaper than theirs, and uses less power.

 

FinFETs technology (3D transistors as intel calls them) cut power consumption like 50% alone, so going 16nm with FinFETs is huge.

Going from 45nm wii U chip ---> 16nm FinFETs would be a crazy big jump.



Azuren said:

If Nintendo would just release a machine with decent specifications, they would get 3rd party games and do well.

You aren't going to convert fans very easily, and shouldn't count on it. There are typically only converts when a company ducks up really hard. What Nintendo needs to do is convince people that they are the only console they need. Have all the 3rd party games, PLUS MARIO.

They need to make it a matter of "Mario or Kratos or Master Chief", not "Mario or EVERYTHING ELSE".

Do you realize you're contradicting yourself in just 2 senteces?

Why go for Mario and everything else when you could have Kratos plus Mario plus everything else?