So you`d be against something like this? ; )

In all seriousness, well written thread and a good read. I think this best sums up why placing Zelda in a role like Link`s would be kind of weird. I wouldn`t be opposed to Zelda being the lead in a Zelda game, but in the sense that people often say, which is Zelda and Link`s role swapped. I found that idea to be odd as well. Link is the hero, so why switch him into a role like Zelda`s. Sort of goes against what the Zelda series has built up to this point. Just seems weird. I guess playing a strong Zelda was sort of fulfilled, such as Smash Bros and Hyrule Warriors. Spin off games, but it`s a nice alt to play as her.

Once again, good thread. : )

hmm...to each their own I guess. Like I said I'd like something in the vein of Chell in Portal, where she's able to defeat her enemies through smarts and by using her environnement. There could be enemies she has to sneak by because they are too dangerous for her to approach, I just don't think it should be most. I very much agree with bolded though.

True. In those games it didn't matter, well off the top off my head the thing that comes to mind is not a game, but think of Aliens. The primary theme explored is rape. Not that that is something that exclusevely happens to women, but the numer of raped females exceeds the number of raped males by far. Usually when a man walks down the street at night by himself the first thing he thinks of isn't 'I hope I don't get raped'. He might be scared of getting mugged or knifed, but for a woman the thing that sits at the front of her mind will more often than not be related to rape in such a situation. Alien knows that. Alien knows the audiences subconscious mindset about rape and uses it to scare the shit out of them and make them fear for Ripley. It's one of the reasons the movie is so effective. I wouldn't have worked as well if Ripley had been cast as a man. So I don't agree that all change would necessarily be pandering in all cases. There are legitemate reasons why some things work better with a specific gendered protagonist (Can you imagine the Duke being female? I can't.). That being said, I'm not actually saying they should change it. In fact, like I said, I don't mind either way.

"Every piece of media that does not have completely equal gender roles is bad. Therefore Zelda must be a warrior and must have her own game!"

- every social media of 2015

Reading things in context helps then you'd realize no one said those two characters are evil but not suited to Zelda who is smart enough to not become misguided and antagonistic, I've seen both those movies, such a change in character and take note of the word character is more suited to Ganon why? The villains in Zelda have become a key driving point of interest as far as their character goes more so then any other character which is why the recent villains have been drastically different from each other because they're the reason anything is actually happening.

SS completely blows your notion that they're not skilled enough in combat, Impa lead Zelda through a few dungeons so unless you're saying all the enemies just magically materialized when Link arrives I don't buy any of this they aren't skilled enough notion. Ofcourse Ghirahim would do better against them he's second only the Demise the force that started the whole Tri-Force cycle.

Ganon doesn't outsmart Zelda he overpowers her, he's the representative of power, she uses her intelligence to aid Link as these two alone can't deal with Ganon that's the whole cycle, Link at the start of each game can't even fight Ganon or any other incarnation of Demise hence why he needs Zelda.

female link > zelda suddenly becomeing a warrior.

Why would a princess risk death? they have people to do that stuff for them.
Besides someone has to be saved, the world / the girl... someone.
You could choose to make that someone a differnt person than zelda... but you know... the game is kinda named after the princess.

At most either;

a) make link female if you absolutly must have some girl power character.
b) bring zelda along on a adventure with link (where she doesnt fight, but can still aid link in some form).

I think warrior princes zelda would go against everything the game is/has become.
Why change it? just because? girl power? it would be silly and hurt the game I think.

@cloudman

Yes we dont want a Xena warrior princess clone.

Link is the little train that could, gathering his curage to go against almost silly odds, even he isnt a warrior.

Hes just a brave lil dude that does what needs doing. Its what makes the game appealing.

You dont suddenly become a warrior... are we to believe zelda has spent 2/3 of her life training for combat, but shes just never tried to fight back against anyone before? have you seen her body type? she doesnt look like shes ever trained. But suddenly shes just a warrior princes? Next game zelda looks like a muscle freak, and has become a warrior princess?

Even the concept of a warrior princess... a real ruler atmost goes to battle with a intire army behinde him, staying in safety even on the battle field.

How is Zelda being a warrior going against everything the game is about after she has been a pirate leader and a Sheikah? How was she not risking death in quite a few of the games?

Except she's already done this as Shiek. Second: if she isn't a "warrior". Than why does she have magic abilities? And third: Each Zelda and Link are new/different people, right. Who says one universe, she isn't a warrior? If Link can be a kid or an adult. Or Zelda be a Pirate, or her job on skyloft. There can be a Zelda that can help along with Link.

There's no pre determine rule to their ocupation. Same can be reversed to Link. He could be King of Hyrule, in one universe. And they're married. Or they work as a team. One universe could make Zelda and Link brother and sister.

Also, the whole when does she have time to train? When did Link in Wind Waker? He just found a sword and sheild. And started saving lives. To rescuse his sister. That's not questioned. But Zelda, who is sorounded by Impa and the Hyrule army, in most games. Can't find the time?

Even if you want to argue: "The Master Sword gave him the ability". Make her need to touch/use it. It's breaks up into two weapons. And when combined can form the true Master sword. Or the Feirce Deity sword can come back. Granted. The series has to stay within a preset box. But these suggestions don't violate any of the core elements.

If Zelda defeated enemies in a Chell-like way, that would be fine, as long as she isn't clearing like dungeons of 30 or so monsters that way. And again, if she just incapacitates them, I think that would be more in line with her character. I definitely think it should be most that she has to stealth around, though. She's not a powerhouse. If she could just waltz in and take out an entire dungeon, even if it was all by using her mind, Link would have no reason to exist.

But it would have worked fine if Ripley wasn't the main character. The rape undertones come from the alien, not Ellen, and Alien is a movie about making male viewers specifically feel uncomfortable because it's about a woman (the alien) raping all the men of the ship, so that's not even really a great example.

I'm not trying to argue that there aren't examples where gender roles can impact a story, but I am arguing that there's no story that could be told in Zelda that would benefit from a female Link.

None of those characters are stupid. No one is above becoming misguided or antagonistic. There's absolutely nothing about those qualities that aren't suited to Zelda. She can be flawed. There's nothing about her character that says she has to be always right. The idea that being tyranical is more suited to Ganon because the villians are the Zelda characters that are interesting holds absolutely no water.

Again, Impa is not shown to be any sort of power house in SS. There's pleanty of explanation, especially stealth, that far better explains how they got through those dungeons. Unless you're also assuming that Impa also has a whip, beetle, and every other puzzle item required for Link to defeat the enemies and puzzles in those dungeons.

Or you could assume Impa had greater skills and more power in some ways, which is why she didn't need Link's tools. Link goes in to most dungeons almost clueless. Impa knows what she is doing and had to guide and protect Zelda at the same time.

Why are you so against Zelda or even Impa for that matter being viewed as capable fighters and warriors in their on right? Me personally wouldn't even call Link a "power house". Link's abilities lies more in his determination and tools he aquires then his fighting skills and strength alone.