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Forums - Politics Discussion - Why Does Society On A Whole Look Down On Pedophilia?

Mythmaker1 on 26 May 2015
Dunban67 said:
Mythmaker1 said:

The reason for the bolded is probably due to the underlined sentiment. Just saying.

there is nothing stopping them from getting counselig now-  no laws need to change and no stigmas need to be changed-  they can t discuss situations in which children have been harmed but otherwise their therapy is protected the same as any other

I'm not certain you understand my point. The question you pose, and the answer you provided, seem to be pure speculation, without taking logical alternatives into account.

You're assuming that virtually all pedophiles will, at some point, contribute to child rape, either directly or via child pornograhpy. There's no reasonable basis to assume that.

Edit: Nevermind. At this point, I see no benefit to a conversation.



I believe in honesty, civility, generosity, practicality, and impartiality.

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mysteryman on 26 May 2015
Ka-pi96 said:
mysteryman said:
padib said:

By what logic?

Arrested development. Aren't most paedophiles victims of child abuse themselves?

The article posted above suggests it's the opposite actually. Former victims can go on to become paedophiles themselves, but more often than not they don't.

By their own admission, the sample sizes used are tiny. It'd be very difficult to gain enough data for meaningful results in the area. Besides requiring abusive and non-abusive paedopihles to come forward and freely give their life story, they'd also need more victims to come forward. You'd be surprised at how prevalent rape/molestation is, and how many people that you know have been personally affected by it, but never said anything.



sundin13 on 26 May 2015
Dunban67 said:

Prove me wrong-  


*claps*

Congrats, you just defeated science.

Cthulhu is real.

Prove me wrong.

PS: The burden of proof is on the one making the claim

PSS: Thanks sc for backing me up with some proof...numbers are tremendously difficult to come by

PSSS: "but the 3% that acted obviously are" (your response to sc)

Thats not actually true... There are a number of factors involved in rape or sexual assault besides sexual attraction, including power or opportunity.

Once again, give me numbers or your claim will not be taken seriously

mysteryman said:

Arrested development. Aren't most paedophiles victims of child abuse themselves?


While previous abuse is a statistically significant variable, this does not seem to be the case.

This study ( http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/179/6/482 ) says that (for males), 35% of perpetrators were sexually abused while 11% of non-perpetrators were sexually abused



Dunban67 on 26 May 2015
kinisking said:
Dunban67 said:


Prove me wrong-  

Impossible. For all you know everyone around you is a pedophile. You'll never know who's a pedophile unless they act. 

and you will never know how many if any  pedofiles there are that  don t/won t act -     So we only know what can be proved-  Why is this post even asking a question about a group of people we don t even know and can t know for sure exist (pedofiles who have not and will not act on their preference)

So to me, as a practical matter this thread is  about pedofiles that have acted and/or will act  and/or wish to act with less societal and legal consequence- 



sundin13 on 26 May 2015
Dunban67 said:

and you will never know how many if any  pedofiles there are that  don t/won t act -     So we only know what can be proved-  Why is this post even asking a question about a group of people we don t even know and can t know for sure exist (pedofiles who have not and will not act on their preference)

So to me, as a practical matter this thread is  about pedofiles that have acted and/or will act  and/or wish to act with less societal and legal consequence- 


Errr...we do know they exist. There have been multiple accounts of such posted throughout this thread, including the article posted numerous times by sc...



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Dunban67 on 26 May 2015
sundin13 said:
Dunban67 said:

Prove me wrong-  


*claps*

Congrats, you just defeated science.

Cthulhu is real.

Prove me wrong.

PS: The burden of proof is on the one making the claim

PSS: Thanks sc for backing me up with some proof...numbers are tremendously difficult to come by

PSSS: "but the 3% that acted obviously are" (your response to sc)

Thats not actually true... There are a number of factors involved in rape or sexual assault besides sexual attraction, including power or opportunity.

Once again, give me numbers or your claim will not be taken seriously

mysteryman said:

Arrested development. Aren't most paedophiles victims of child abuse themselves?


While previous abuse is a statistically significant variable, this does not seem to be the case.

This study ( http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/179/6/482 ) says that (for males), 35% of perpetrators were sexually abused while 11% of non-perpetrators were sexually abused

This is my answer:  

and you will never know how many if any  pedofiles there are that  don t/won t act -     So we only know what can be proved-  Why is this post even asking a question about a group of people we don t even know exist and can t know for sure exist (pedofiles who have not and will not act on their preference)

So to me, as a practical matter this thread is  about pedofiles that have acted and/or will act  and/or wish to act with less societal and legal consequence- 



bouzane on 26 May 2015
Dunban67 said:
 


Prove me wrong-  


The onus is on you to prove your claim true, that is how logic works.

@OP

Society clearly looks down on pedophilia due to the resultant child molestation and the damage it does. Pedophiles who never act on their urges can never really be trusted due to the fact that so many have harmed children for their amusement. It is impossible to distinguish one camp from the other because of the number of offenders who act out their desires. I'm not condoning the persecution of thought crimes by any means, I believe that pedophiles should be able to seek counceling without being overtly stigmatized, but I can certainly understand the resentment and mistrust.

On a side note, I have to laugh at the people who believe that every pedophile should be violently put to death, regardless of whether or not they have actually committed an offense. If we applied the same standards to these violent psychopaths they themselves would be killed for their thought crimes.



sundin13 on 26 May 2015
Dunban67 said:

This is my answer:  

and you will never know how many if any  pedofiles there are that  don t/won t act -     So we only know what can be proved-  Why is this post even asking a question about a group of people we don t even know exist and can t know for sure exist (pedofiles who have not and will not act on their preference)

So to me, as a practical matter this thread is  about pedofiles that have acted and/or will act  and/or wish to act with less societal and legal consequence- 


Quite frankly, your answer is bullshit.

It can be (and has been) proven, that pedophiles who have not commited illicit acts with a minor exist.

All evidence that I have found suggests that your "close to 100%" nonsense is just that (nonsense). I have seen evidence like the article that sc has posted, I have seen evidence looking into criminal histories of child pornography offenders etc and it all suggests that "close to 100%" isn't the truth.

The fact that you keep repeating this assertion does not make it any more true.



Dunban67 on 26 May 2015
sundin13 said:
Dunban67 said:

and you will never know how many if any  pedofiles there are that  don t/won t act -     So we only know what can be proved-  Why is this post even asking a question about a group of people we don t even know and can t know for sure exist (pedofiles who have not and will not act on their preference)

So to me, as a practical matter this thread is  about pedofiles that have acted and/or will act  and/or wish to act with less societal and legal consequence- 


Errr...we do know they exist. There have been multiple accounts of such posted throughout this thread, including the article posted numerous times by sc...

no we don t know-  the articles don t prove anything  but they make for nice propaganda



Toxy on 26 May 2015
JazzB1987 said:
Bofferbrauer said:
The problem with pedophilia is that it's exclusivly non-consentual, so there's no one who could live it's sexual orientation without abusing a child. This includes Child pornography, as these children are either forced to do so or doesn't even know what happens to them.

I would, however, also rather call it a sexual orientation than a mental disorder. The mental problem that comes with it for a person with pedophilia is to understand you'll never be able to live your sexual orientation, have to live a different life and to hide your actual orientation, which is probably too much pressure for quite a few of them and driving them literally mad.


The problem I have with this is the following tho.

How do you know if its non-consentual?

What if the child doesnt care? I mean lets assume the kid never saw movies or watched news or whatever and NOONE ever told the child that having sex can be something bad then the kid would not care.

Society just tells us whats good and whats bad.

What I mean by saying this?
Let me give you one example. (girl in this "story" being 25 years old not a 8 year old kid)

1 Girl is drunk and passes out. She gets raped. She never knows = no change whatsoever.

meanwhile in parallel universe.

1 Girl gets drunk passes out. She gets raped. She doesnt know for years and 3 years later someone tells her = OMG WORLD IMPLODES.

The only difference is in her head because know she thinks about how bad rape is in society and that she needs to feel ashamed sad angry scared etc.


Come on. Rape is bad regardless of whether the person is aware of it or not.
This should not even be a consideration.

'As long as they are not aware of it is okay' is one of the worst things someone could possibly say.
Rape/sexual assault is NEVER okay. It does not matter what age you are, what your sexual orientation, or what your gender is.

Just because someone may be ignorant of the situation, does not make it okay.