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Forums - Politics Discussion - Are You Pro Or Anti-Abortion?

Anti-abortion



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ArchangelMadzz said:
sundin13 said:


Both ways of dealing with the drug abuse have their upsides and their downsides. Many people see lighter punishments as encouraging drug abuse by removing the negative consequences, while jail time obviously has the issues you pointed out such as increasing peoples criminal status. I don't think there is enough data to make a definitive conclusion, but there are multiple sides...

Also, I think you need to understand the difference between legalization and decriminalization. Legalization would have distribution of cocaine next to cigarettes, while decriminalization would change the penalties. Which are you in favor of?

And people who think helping people rather than punishing them as a way of encouraging it are stupid and they probably would've used drugs anyway.

That is an oversight my bad, decriminalisation definitely. 


Encouraging was the wrong word, I just couldn't think of a word for "lack of discouragement" other than "encouragement". Essentially, if the reason some people don't use drugs is because of the threat of jail time, what would be the effect of removing that threat? (we need to remember that jail serves not only as a punishment for those who have broken the law but also as discouragement for other potential law breakers)

I think its a valid question to ask, however, I do think that we handle things quite badly as of now. While I think we should move towards what you are suggesting, I think there is a bit of a fine line and we need to be careful not to cross it...



RadiantDanceMachine said:
Mr.Playstation said:

Due to an ever increasing amount of various views in life, taking a stronger hold nowadays such as feminism, it seems that abortion has become a much more hotly discussed topic and a lot of people seem to agree that it's okay to perform abortion, i.e the act of killing a baby, which is still in a mother's womb. So what I want to know from you guys is whether or not you personally are pro or anti abortion?

 

Discuss Peacefully


1. Fetus

2. Not PRO abortion, PRO choice. No one is sitting there gleeful when they are getting an abortion like some diabolical super-villain.


Speak for yourself.



ArchangelMadzz said:
DonFerrari said:

Were only disagreeing with your seemingly lack of consequences and accident route on drugs... on having support to leave it or being in jail just for consumptiion I'm against (but while the law is that they must abide).

Lack of consequences? I'm saying drugs should be legalised so we can help addicts instead of throwing them in prision. How can you disagree with both? If drugs are illegal you have to put them away. Unless you change the law... which would then make it legal..

Your first post on drugs were like people accidentely get addicted and shouldn't be burden by it... but now that you voiced it better I'm ok with it.



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DonFerrari said:
ArchangelMadzz said:

I don't regard myself as superior, if I tell someone they suck at singing it doesn't mean I'm beyonce. 

Yes, they gave birth to it because they knew they could. And I support that fully that's why it's called PRO CHOICE.

Fetus' have survived being born less than 24 weeks? And people have smoked for 80 years and not suffered at all from it, I guess we should re think the whole smoking being harmful thing?

And I'm not even going to acknowledge that last part because you clearly know how ridiculous that was and I'm not sure why you wasted the energy to put it.

You were very disrespectful on 2 occasions on calling me ineducated on the matter and talking shovel. So yes you regard yourself superior.

Yes there were cases of less than 22 weeks, so your argument that life is just after 24 weeks because that is when it can live in the outside world is lost or should retract (and keep retracting while science advances to support birth at even younger age). There is no such thing as not suffering at all from 80 years smoking, you can say they hadn't cancer or anything like that, but show a clean lungue from someone that smoke for 80 years (really smoked, not one cigar every blue moon). And cigars only affect the idiot smoking, so it's a completely different matter.


Ineducated on the matter of abortion based on your descriptions which is a justifiable observation doesn't mean I regard myself as superior to you. That would require far more testing ;) I kid but you see my point.


You fail to understand, I said it's around 24 weeks, biology isn't set in stone. If I say, girls reach puberty at around the age 11 and a girl reaches it at 5 doesn't mean that I should say girls reach puberty at around the age of 5.

Fetus' develop at different rates , 24 weeks isn't said because it HAS to be 24 weeks it just means it's reached its independant state of development. Which USUALLY takes 24 weeks. If it reaches it at 22 weeks it is LIFE. 

But you knew that, you just felt like making a point right?



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ArchangelMadzz said:
the-pi-guy said:
ArchangelMadzz said:

yes and a sperm cell is capable of becoming life. Same way as if I am a magnificent singer I have the potential for being a lead in a boyband, I need other members but the definition works.

Science has provided a solid definition, unless you have another that you can pose your point is mute.

In the same way that  if a sperm never meets an egg, you can't have life.  

If you can never sing, then you can't be a singer.  Regardless of your ability to do so, and regardless of the sperm's ability to do so.  

Science can and has provided a definition for life.  But it can't define when it matters, just in the same way that science can't determine the best favorite color.  

It's a subjective argument that depends on the person.   



You've literally just solidifed the meaning of POTENTIAL. It means you can but it doesn't mean you WILL. I CAN be in a boyband, it doesn't mean I WILL. My sperm CAN develop into life it doesn't mean it WILL if it never meets an egg. It has the potential. 

Ohh the matters part is purely opinion, but if the potential matters then a lot of 13 year olds are fucked. 


Basic biology is that when a sperm(haploid) and egg(haploid) meter and form full DNA (zygote) then another person is created..ask any forensic scientist who uses DNA evidence to solve a crime...



i am agree on abortion if the pregnancy is under 4 month and because of healthy reason, or if the woman cannot give birth for a safety reason.

at 4 month pregnancy the unborn child already have their souls inside and consider a live, that's why they have already their human rights.



marioboy2004 said:
ArchangelMadzz said:


You've literally just solidifed the meaning of POTENTIAL. It means you can but it doesn't mean you WILL. I CAN be in a boyband, it doesn't mean I WILL. My sperm CAN develop into life it doesn't mean it WILL if it never meets an egg. It has the potential. 

Ohh the matters part is purely opinion, but if the potential matters then a lot of 13 year olds are fucked. 


Basic biology is that when a sperm(haploid) and egg(haploid) meter and form full DNA (zygote) then another person is created..ask any forensic scientist who uses DNA evidence to solve a crime...


Anyone 11 year old could tell you that, I'm not sure where the contradiction is?



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SanAndreasX said:
Ka-pi96 said:

So it's wrong for men to care about their children?

Additionally, what if it's the other way around? What if it's the woman that wants to keep the child but the man that wants the abortion? Then by keeping the child the woman is forcing the man in to making a huge financial investment, so in that case the investment argument isn't solely in the woman's favour.


Sorry, but when your biological involvement is 5-25 minutes with no medical risk, compared to 9 months will 100% of the medical risk for the other party, you don't exactly have a strong leg to stand on. The man wasn't "forced" in either situation.  Medical risk trumps financial risk in this case.

So the entire life of the baby only invoves the 9 months in the mothers woumb? We have to think what also happens after the kid is born and the father is almost as involve in raising a kid as the mother. The life people keep claiming thats being denied with an abortin starts after the baby is born and the father is a prime member of the family. A family could be good without one, but as studies show, its not recomended.



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DonFerrari said:
ArchangelMadzz said:

Lack of consequences? I'm saying drugs should be legalised so we can help addicts instead of throwing them in prision. How can you disagree with both? If drugs are illegal you have to put them away. Unless you change the law... which would then make it legal..

Your first post on drugs were like people accidentely get addicted and shouldn't be burden by it... but now that you voiced it better I'm ok with it.


My first post literally said " I don't understand putting heroin addicts in prison and turning them into hard criminals when they leave instead of just giving them help because addiction fucking sucks and no one chooses addiction?"

That's the same thing what I said above?



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