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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Prediction: "Cartridges" will return for the Nintendo home console

archer9234 said:
DanneSandin said:
archer9234 said:
DanneSandin said:

Why? Do you have to divide the space in even halfs? 64GB for the game and 64GB free space?

Patches, save data, + DLC how big the card needs to be. Because than load times aren't going to improve. If a HDD is needed for the other things.

I have no idea how SD-cards work, I just assumed you could reserv 64GB for the actual game and then have the rest free to add DLC, patches and more on, but you're saying that if that's the case, load time will be just as bad as on optical media?

Load times will be resticted to to the slowest compoent. A HDD would be that. And you're missing what I'm trying to explain. You want sections of flash for each part. However, that is asking you to have multiple flash cards in one. So in total. You would have 100 or 200GB reserved for games like Halo MCC. GTA v. Granted those are not common, now. But later. Or if DLC in total adds up more than that. Than you're buying a 200GB SD card. We're back to the reason why this isn't done still.

I'll try to explain it this way. a BD season of say Star Trek is 6 discs. That is reality 300GB's in total. See the price of a 300GB SSD drive. Or 300GB in SD cards. That's why we don't use them for movies/shows/games. IF flash media was at the same price per GB. From a disc. DVD would of been replaced by SD cards. PS3 360 and Wii would all do the same thing.


Flash != mask rom.

And the whole point of Flash production is monetizing free space.  The space and capacity itself is the commodity being sold and monetized.  Flash is expensive because empty space is what they are selling you for maximum markup.

With software distribution, you have the opposite goal.  You are selling software for profit and the cost of the distribution media is an operating cost that is eating into your profit and needs to be minimal and maginalized to almost nothing.  You arent going to throw $30 on top of the $60 game price JUST because it's "64 GB" stamped on the card and no other reason.



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marioboy2004 said:
exdeath said:


If all they've got these days is Madden, Call of Duty, and Angry Birds they can keep that crap on Xbox and iPad and leave Nintendo out of it.

I'll keep my Nintendo with Nintendo, Monolith, Square, Namco, Atlus, NIS, etc.  You can have your "AAA" mainstream shovelware Activision, EA, and Ubisoft, I don't want them. :D

No I was referring to final fantasy, street fighter, megaman, chrono trigger, contra, castlevania, metal gear, bomberman,  the franchises that have their roots in Nintend that Sony claimed..

Capcom and Konami killed themselves.  You can't blame Sony for that.  Where was Megaman or Breath of Fire oer Contra on PS3 or 360 or Wii?  7th Gen lasted over 8 years.  Where the hell did Breath of Fire or Zombies ate my Neighbors go?  Sony didn't tell Capcom to lust after Call of Duty dollars and completely destroy Resident Evil trying to get into the wallets of the ADHD mouth breather casuals. These companies hurt themselves by forgetting their own niche roots, disrespecting the fan base that made them what they are, and attempting to chase after their piece of the Call of Duty and Angry Birds pies.

They screwed themselves by ditching their best friends to try to fit in with the new kids on the block when gaming went mainstream*  and now they are trying to crawl back and say they are sorry years later. Mainstream = the point when gaming became "cool" and not a "kids toy" and everyone had to have a polished and waxed Xbox or Playstation on their living room table.

 I lost all hope in Konami when they said mobile phones are the future of gaming a few days ago.

Square would also be dead by now as well if not for FF XIV ARR being the biggest comeback in gaming history.  Where was Secret of Mana on PS3 or Wii? That wasn't Nintendo or Sony's fault.



I doubt that, Nintendo knows that his next console have to be more than just a "game" machine, they have to make it multimidia friendly to have a place in all people rooms. The days of gaming only machines are on the past.



RolStoppable said:

Nintendo's dilemma is that handhelds are more popular than home consoles in Japan while in the rest of the world it is the other way around. They can't afford to stop making one kind of hardware in favor of the other, but that creates the dilemma that they have to support two distinct platforms with software. The solution is that Nintendo has stopped thinking of home console and handheld as two separate entities, so going forward they will make as many games as possible run on both a home console and a handheld, and give consumers the choice for which hardware they like to play on. Since Nintendo's software output will be compatible with both devices, droughts should be greatly reduced in the future, especially because it also won't be necessary anymore to create something like two distinct Mario Kart games. The resources that are freed up that way can be funneled into the development of a broader lineup of titles which in turn increases the perceived value of the new Nintendo platform NX.

Home console and handheld being similar in specs isn't that hard to accomplish when the home console sees only a slight improvement over the Wii U. This allows the handheld to catch up with the usual generational leap in processing power that Nintendo handhelds have experienced every generation. Home console and handheld should end up in the same ballpark. I already addressed why this won't be a problem for third party support in my initial paragraph of this reply; such third party support wouldn't arrive regardless of the specs Nintendo provides.

As for software specifically, you are focused on the wrong perspective. Right now the third party support that Nintendo gets comes first and foremost from Japan and is for the handheld. So this support would translate to Nintendo's home console because it will only take a token effort to make a handheld game run at a higher resolution to suit a TV screen; remember, the idea of this thread is that any handheld game can be inserted in a home console.

Furthermore, Nintendo's own development resources having a stronger focus should have a notable positive effect on hardware sales. Sales are the only thing that can convince the major third party publishers to make more games for the new Nintendo platform and at that point it doesn't really matter how powerful the hardware is. Third parties can either adjust or ignore, but Nintendo will be fine either way because they will have already created a more attractive Nintendo platform for consumers.


I see your point, but i still think they would be incurring in a big risk. I guess if you make a powerful HH and maybe stop some assets from loading during a HH session could make it work.

You think they are going to sell the devices separately right? Could NX be a HH launched alone first (maybe even able to play Wii U games, if bought digitally) and the complementary console later?



Bofferbrauer said:
WhiteEaglePL said:
I think Nintendo would go back to the same problem as with Gamecube.........too much work for 3rd parties to make it fit in the awkward SD cards.

I don't see it or 'Fusion' happening.

You do are aware that SD cards can hold right now over 10 times more data than a Blu-Ray Disc? The biggest SD cards you could buy atm have 512 GB of space, which is even over 20 times what an optical disc can have. Granted, these SD cards cost something like 600$ a piece, but space definitly ain't a problem here

@DanneSandin

The drawbacks of SD cards over Blu-Ray discs are:

- Production price: Flash memory is expensive (which is why SD cards will not be used, it need to be ROMs which are way cheaper to produce once it's set up. See posts on first page for details)

- Transfer speed: even less bandwith than Blu-Ray discs for the most part, which would mean even longer loading times

- But the main problem is: God damn easy to copy. The Internet would get flooded with the games for the console practically the instant they get released.

Seriously, using SD cards would be the dumbest thing they could do. Using a new format of similar size with ROMs are no problem, but standard SD cards would be suicide. No one would want to produce games for a format without any possibility for at least an halfway decent copy protection.


No way.  Show me a BD that can stream 90 MB/s (not bits, BYTES) or can sustain MB/sec speeds under purely random access.  Once you start seeking random small files the SD card is going to be thousands of times faster.



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zorg1000 said:
atomicblue said:
We should really just stop having prediction threads.


Why, does this seem like an unrealistic prediction to u?


Yes, like pretty much every prediction I ever see on here.

When I go against my better judgement and click on them to read what the person thinks, I usually end up rolling my eyes.



I can see it happening if they go for a unified design. It would have to be a memory card type that fits on both. Preferably similar to 3DS and DS cards so that both consoles can be backwards compatible. WiiU gamepads would be paired with the home console (and sold seperately) to enable DS and 3DS game compatibility. IMO, the disc drive would be a must. Having backwards compatibility with WiiU and Wii software will require it (can't just rely on digital format), though no new games will be made in disc format. But all this implies perhaps a complicated hardware design since it would need the DS, 3DS, Wii and WiiU processors on board for hardware emulation on top of the new chip.

Back OT, one potential issue would be the storage size of the memory card cartridges. Too much and too fast would be expensive to make. We might underestimate the capacity needed to have games run at native 1080p or higher resolution. And read speed since the data would be very large.



e=mc^2

Gaming on: PS4 Pro, Switch, SNES Mini, Wii U, PC (i5-7400, GTX 1060)

exdeath said:

Some of us demand it.  Computers are too fast and data is too large.  Mechanical media cannot keep up.  It never has.  Solid state was always how it should be.  Don't know why we transitioned to primitive shitty magnetic and optical rotating track storage to begin with.  That shit was barbaric in the 1950s.  Read/Write heads have no place in the 21st century.

I want even the next home video 4k format to be some kind of card.  I imagine of library of BD or DVD cases and think what if they were all like Vita cards/cases.

I wasn't advocating mechanical media, more as no more physical media.   They way songs, music, business, and many movies, games and TV shows are now distributed.  Actually, just exactely like this web site, and all other web sites.  They are just digital data in the internet ether.

I think we are about to have another bump forward in computer power.  The last few development cycles have been about making things smaller and use less power - more so than more power and higher speed.  But DDR4 memory is out and the chips have caught up with battery and cooling life - time to expand forward as they did around a decade ago.

4k is here, but I have only seen it as an all digital media.  From Youtube to Netflix, there is 4k content as well as the soon more broadly adoptin of .256 format which will give you a 4k picture in the same badwith as 1080p today.  Plus the internet is just getting so much faster.

They could do SD cards.  And there are a few good reasons for them, but with all the extra processing, packaging and shipping I think they are lost to the benefits of, cost savings, endless duplication and rapid distrubtion of an all digital format.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

grannamir said:
I doubt that, Nintendo knows that his next console have to be more than just a "game" machine, they have to make it multimidia friendly to have a place in all people rooms. The days of gaming only machines are on the past.

Thats why SD card is a good thing, because every smart device have SD or MicroSD slot.



-People are forgetting that prices of SD, Micro SD cards, SSD, USB Flash...are constantly falling like a rock.

-They can have a range of sizes of SD cards.
Majority of Nintendo Wii U games are less than 8GB, it safe to say that majority of games on next hardware will be less than 20GB, so 32GB SD would be more than enuf for Nintendo games, but they can use 16GB and evan 8GB for some games, and for really big games like a Xenoblade X or some 3rd party it can be used 64GB.

-What's with all this, "what about patches and DLCs", what about them!?
You can clearly see how are they managed now on current gen, I don't see why would be different on next Nintendo console.

SD slot is very cheap, much cheaper than optical drive, that could affect on price of console.
Also maybe Nintendo could have little cheaper digital games on eShop than physical SD based games.