your saying the wii is a toy. but the wii has almost as many t and m rated games as the ps3

^Teenagers and grown-ups can't have toys?

The vibrator says hi.

 It depends on your definition of a toy.  In the classical sense a Wii can definitely be considered a toy.  So would the PS3 and the 360.  Mars' smug demeanor though makes it clear he considers it a toy in a derogatory manner.  He means it's just for little kids to play with.

I'm really not interested in the ongoing argument, but this point is simply not correct. Check the actual Japanese sales charts from early 1997 when Final Fantasy launched in Japan (all archived on this website). The Playstation had already decisively moved past the Saturn in Japan, even before FF7 launched. The week BEFORE the game came out, hardware sales looked like this:

Playstation: 91k
Saturn: 28k
(http://vgchartz.com/japweekly.php?date=35456&console=&maker=&disp=Japanese+Name&boxartz=1)

The install bases were still relatively close, within 1m of each other, but it was obvious to everyone which console was the clear winner. Although Final Fantasy definitely was part of this process, it merely continued a pre-existing trend. Sony had created what was by far the best development environment for third parties, and they reaped the rewards.

The notion that Final Fantasy 7 single-handedly changed the outcome of the fifth generation console wars is simply incorrect. Go back and look at the charts.

This thread reeks of insecurity and personal desires taking precedence over logic and reason...

Sony cannot dominate the market this generation; like Nintendo with the N64 and GC, it's a foregone conclusion at this point. As with the last generation, the end result of this generation has become very clear now that the launch years of each system have played out. We're just going through the motions from here on out. Though Sony can claim second place, that's as far as they can hope to go.

I find this sort of discussion all too familiar, as fans of just about every "second fiddle" console ever in the last 10 years have had similar defenders on the internet claiming their console of choice would make a miracle comeback. None of them ever did. Some of them had the exact same advantages as the PS3 (ie. more powerful hardware base and a loyal following). It didn't help them one bit.

 haha that math is crazy.  No math doesn't "lie".  You're right, it can't.  

However I still dispute how you got those numbers in the first place.  You're not only assuming the 60/45 million userbases but the fact that all 45 would jump over to the PS3 even though the 360 wouldn't be "dead" considering it's only down by 15 million. 

That's as crazzy as me saying look the Wii will beat the PS1/PS2 combined!  First we have to kill off the PS3/360.  At that point we'd have 90 million and PS3/360 would both have 50 million.  Once they all buy a Wii we'd be at 190 million.  Then if we get half of the PS1/PS2 owners that's another 100+ and we get near 300 million!

 Obviously my entire premise is flawed but that was the point.

Yeah, the Gamecube doesn't have a bad Zelda game, but a "very" bad Zelda game:

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/cube/legendofzeldathewindwaker?q=wind%20waker

96 is a bad score. Everything from 97+ is good. Everything below is garbage. Yeah...

Oh, the Gamecube has a bad Mario game. Not a "very" bad Mario game, but a bad Mario game:

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/cube/supermariosunshine?q=super%20mario%20sunshine

92? Wow, that's so low! Super Mario 64 got 94, but Sunshine got 92? That's pathetic. I didn't even know that scores went that low.

Gamecube didn't have a single Metroid game. For shame... for shame...

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/cube/metroidprime?q=metroid%20prime

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/cube/metroidprime2echoes?q=metroid%20prime 

One good game? Never. Has to be many, good games. Sorry.

Where have you been for the last 6 years?

Obviously on the side of the better console ; )