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Forums - Politics Discussion - Freedom of business

Ka-pi96 said:
vivster said:

The same goes hand in hand with employment. Why would I as a business owner not have the right to decide who I employ? Who says I have to employ gays or women or handicapped people? Since when is getting employment a right?

While I agree businesses shouldn't be forced to hire people based on gender, sexuality, race etc they also shouldn't specifically reject people because of those reasons.

Why though?If I can't decide why I hire or reject an applicant then suddenly that applicant has more rights than me in this situation even though it is my business. That seems kinda off.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

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teigaga said:

Theres a distinction between that image you posted and actual discrimination regarding something someone is unable to change such as their race/sexuality. How many times have you been declined service because of your person? Not attire, but who you literally are. Its not even comparable.

That isn't really correct though. If not wearing an attire that is appropriate for that business is part of my personality then I'm getting rejected because of that. I can't change mypersonality. So forcing a shirt on me and act like a normal person is the exact very same as forcing a gay person to act straight.

Both don't hurt the person physically and both are easily possible but both will make that person feel really uncomfortable and wrong.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Ka-pi96 said:
vivster said:
Ka-pi96 said:

While I agree businesses shouldn't be forced to hire people based on gender, sexuality, race etc they also shouldn't specifically reject people because of those reasons.

Why though?If I can't decide why I hire or reject an applicant then suddenly that applicant has more rights than me in this situation even though it is my business. That seems kinda off.

The only reasons you should have to hire or reject an applicant should be how good they are for the job. That's it.

What if their gender or sexuality would disrupt my business in some way? Be it that they can't work together with my extremely religious employees or because my horny employees get distracted by that sexy new employee. They're all good and productive employees but they have their faults like everyone else. Should I fire them instead just to conform to social demands?



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Ka-pi96 said:
vivster said:
Ka-pi96 said:

The only reasons you should have to hire or reject an applicant should be how good they are for the job. That's it.

What if their gender or sexuality would disrupt my business in some way? Be it that they can't work together with my extremely religious employees or because my horny employees get distracted by that sexy new employee. They're all good and productive employees but they have their faults like everyone else. Should I fire them instead just to conform to social demands?

No you should make your other employees conform to social demands. If they are extremely religious or horny or whatever you should tell them to keep that stuff out of work and if they aren't capable of that then they'd need to be fired.

So I should discriminate against all my workers who have always been loyal and efficient workers in the right conditions so I can just higher one additional person?

Yes, that is weird and against any business sense. Why even make a private business if I have to let society dictate how it operates even though it does not hurt anyone.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Ka-pi96 said:

Oh come on, refusing wear proper clothes for something because of your personality? If you've got some kind of mental disorder then fair enough, otherwise you are just being a prick for the sake of it.

I hate wearing suits. I can't even wear them because I easily sweat in them. Making me wear one is extremely uncomfortable for me. This is not a mental disorder but just personal preference. I don't see why my "little inconvenience" is less valid than someone elses.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

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You're not really likening putting a shirt on to changing your sexuality, could you start being attracted to men if you were asked to?

And what if I opened a business and told black people, jews and asians to stay away from it? You have the right to be a bigot and have a closed mind but not to discriminate as far as I'm concerned.



Ka-pi96 said:

You wouldn't be discriminating against them. You'd be asking them not to discriminate against others.

'even though it does not hurt anyone.'
It does hurt people though.

You mean it hurts the one job applicant I didn't take? If that constitutes as hurting someone then no business ever should be allowed to deny any applicant because of any reason.

Again, you're drawing arbitrary lines and put seperate worth on people's life choices and personalities.

You're saying someone who disrupts business because of incompetence is less worth than someone who disrupts business because of their gender. Well I have news for you, intelligence isn't a choice. Why are we allowed to discriminate against stupid people but not gender?



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

gatito said:
You're not really likening putting a shirt on to changing your sexuality, could you start being attracted to men if you were asked to?

And what if I opened a business and told black people, jews and asians to stay away from it? You have the right to be a bigot and have a closed mind but not to discriminate as far as I'm concerned.

Read again. I said "pretending to  straight". And with that I don't mean sleep with the next person of the opposite sex you see. Just not give any clues as to what sexuality you prescribe to. Which should be possible for any gay person. Like it is possible for me to pretend I'm a civilized person even though I'm really not.

That bolded statement contradicts itself.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

I'm honestly not sure where the idea what business owners should be free to do whatever they want because they have a privately owned business came from. You can't legally sell whatever you want, and you can't legally sell certain things to certain age groups. I don't see many people pushing to make it legal to serve alcohol or sell firearms to children.

If you open a business available to the public and use city and state resources such as roads and venues, you must serve the whole public and follow laws, and you pledge to do so whenever you apply for a business license. If you don't want to do business with a certain group of people, then you shouldn't open a business. That's your freedom; the freedom to operate a business that abides by the law, or to not operate a business at all.



I prefer to live in a society where freedom does not mean legally enabling bigotry in business practices. So I'm glad I live in a society where that is not allowed under the law.

Individual people are free to be bigotted arseholes in their own private lives, but when it comes to the work place and business environment that shit needs to be left at the door, and if you can't leave that shit at the door the law should make you leave that shit at the door.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix