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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Fire Emblem's new anime direction (RANT)

ToraTiger said:

Lol the conversations were natural to you?  It was just everyone playing their cliche personalities to the highest point, to make it seem more interesting than it actually was.  There is nothing natural about the characters as they were unrealistic as hell.  Also the writing while done well suffers in this regard because of them


I didn't say anything was natural, and I don't believe it was. I think the tone was very strongly in the focal point of almost all discussions and I think that it clearly was written to be a product of its own universe. What I mean by this is that the dialogue and characters were meant to exist inside of the created lore and not in the real world. When writing characters, you need to write them for the story and not simply transfer them from one universe to another. I think the characters all clearly existed within the universe that was created in FE:A.

What I said was that the character relationships all felt like they were designed as the true pairing which I would say is quite a feat. This pretty much means that all of the characters I married meshed quite well together and were charismatic and interesting as a pair, despite the large amount of potential pairing that existed.

I also think that a lot of the characters had moments where their backstory was fleshed out or they acted in ways outside of their cliche making them more likable and interesting as a result. This went a long way towards making me want to see more of their backstories through pairings and making me like pretty much every character in the game (although some more than others).

As I said, the characters are not "deep", but I don't think they were trying to be and i don't think they really needed to be. That obviously wasn't the focus of the game and I don't really consider that to be much of a weakness. Not every character needs to be a character study, especially if the story doesn't call for it and especially if the cast of characters is so large. While I do think that they can improve on the poignancy of the story, and I am certainly looking forward to what they do with FE:if, I think you are strongly overstating the weight of many of your complaints.

PS: You would do well to treat the people you are speaking to with some respect if you wish to have any sort of civil discussion. Laughing at someone's opinion will not win you any friends and it will more often than not destroy any chance at discussion.



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Namiirei said:

Come on, it's a remake of a nes Game, this one obviously doesn't count :cool:


The worst thing is that it is a worse game than the NES version, replayability aside (which offers plenty of it, much more than any other Fire Emblem I'd say).



ToraTiger said:
Cloudman said:


That is definitely not the case. Japan is crazy for its cute anime, moe style.


Not talkinig about cutish stuff.  I'm talking about the simplified anime art with the basic colorful characters.  Like Sword Art Online or Blue exoricst. 


I`d likely say anything anime-related in Japan is bigger than in the US. It`s their standard thing and they really like it.



 

              

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XanderXT said:
ToraTiger said:

Okay baby.  <3

My point is, you can't just ignore my opinions just because my current avatar is anime inspired.


I'm just kidding brah.  <3 



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Cloudman said:
ToraTiger said:


Not talkinig about cutish stuff.  I'm talking about the simplified anime art with the basic colorful characters.  Like Sword Art Online or Blue exoricst. 


I`d likely say anything anime-related in Japan is bigger than in the US. It`s their standard thing and they really like it.


Of course that's true, but this art style is incrediable popular with the western crowd, and I'm pretty sure that was part of the marketing. 



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SSB really went downhill after Melee....

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RolStoppable said:

Didn't you already admit that you lack experience with previous Fire Emblem games?

Anyway, I think it's first and foremost an issue of "The first time I experienced this, it was great and original. Now this time around it isn't the same anymore.", so we are looking at something that can apply to any video game series.


Which is why I was focusing on Awakening as much as possible and using what other people were saying and some independent research to back the few statements I made about Awakening in relation to other Fire Emblem games.



pokoko said:
Western fan gets angry that a Japanese game is made to appeal to Japanese tastes. Accuses the developer of trying to appeal to "weeaboos" instead of, you know, Japanese people.

This is awesome and hilarious.


I know right?

Quick someone call the




Are FE:A and SMT x FE created by the same company?



Pocky Lover Boy! 

RolStoppable said:

Ever since support conversations have been introduced to the FE series, the difference in importance of the given characters has only been emphasized because those who are central to the storyline usually had the biggest amount of support options. What Awakening changed is that the lesser characters are now on more equal footing (actually, almost everyone is more important than the main character Chrom) and the big amount of options for everyone mean that the experience can differ a lot for any player of the game. If someone happens to pick some of the least interesting pairings of the bunch, they are going to feel disappointed by the characterisation. Given that the amount of possible supports has multiplied (used to be around 80 pairs in previous games, now several hundred), the likelyhood for throwaway conversations has also increased. It's also hard to avoid cliched characters when the cast encompasses over 40 people, so they've always been present in the series.

But back to the issue, characters like Lethe and Mordecai have been mentioned as being much better than anything that is in Awakening. It's something that people will tend to agree with because Lethe and Mordecai get an elaborate introduction in Path of Radiance's story, so there's no need for support conversations to really flesh out their characters (both of them have only three support options anyway); PoR also had base conversations, so that's a lot of dialogue between characters that was easily accessible between chapters and every player would get to see them. Awakening handles things differently in that almost everyone only has a brief introduction and there are no base conversations, so the rest has to be discovered via supports. As a result, a single playthrough of the game will leave a lot of characters bland, unless the player grinds for conversations.

If we go back to before the PoR/Radiant Dawn duo, there were no base conversations. Therefore a lot of players would agree that large amounts of the casts in the GBA games are not much more than a character portrait without any sort of personality, especially because triggering support conversations takes so much effort that most people forego doing it.


Interesting and informative post...I am certainly looking forward to FE:if to see how they improve on the formula from Awakening, as it sounds like a middle ground could be reached to satisfy everyone (or almost everyone).

I wish I could actually play some of the older Fire Emblems though, but they are all so darn expensive!



As someone who loved Awakening, I have to say....I can't relate to this at all.

I mean, I enjoy anime, sure. But in the end it's a medium with plenty of variety, and though I realize there are certain tropes inherent to the medium, I either don't experience enough of it or watch the right shows to really get bothered by an overabundance of it. There are loads of great stories and characters in anime (especially great action stories, adventure stories, and war stories of all sorts), and I don't think there's anything wrong with something reflecting that medium. I mean, yes, I've heard some bad things about certain genres and shows, but that doesn't damn an entire country's medium of entertainment as far as I'm concerned.

Going to the points you make specifically, most of them are so vague I don't really know what to make of them.

"Tired story elements"? Now, I still haven't quite beaten the game, but there are some damn good twists in this game's plot, and some surprisingly depressing and heartfelt moments. At times the game did certain things that I simply didn't expect, did things I'm not used to JRPGs doing (being purposefully vague to avoid spoiling some events), and overall its an adventure I've enjoyed. Sure, the game's plotline is derivative in some fashion, but its execution is damn good.

I also have no idea what you mean by "deep plot device". In the plot devices themselves, nothing really sticks out to me as particularly "bad". I felt the story flowed rather naturally from one event to the next, and things never really felt forced or unnatural. When the story needs the characters to do something, it gives them a very good reason (rescuing someone very important, waging a war on a foreign continent to prevent a war on your own soil) without coming up with any weird BS for instigating it.

And this third point I....guess I understand, but couldn't disagree with more. Sure, maybe not all the support conversations were gold, but the vast majority were either heartfelt or hilarious. They weren't just in-character, they ENRICHED the characters, and let them be more than just one-note tropes (well, a lot of the time anyway. The characters in this game could be rather trope-ish). One of my biggest disappointments with the game was that it was limited on this front. I couldn't have certain characters I thought might have interesting chemistry interact with one another. I really don't know we're your getting this "harem" and "waifu" stuff...there isn't really a lot of will they/won't they between one dude and a bunch of potential partners. The romance doesn't typically come into play in many of these conversations until towards the end of their character arcs. And you have to actively be trying to get them together by pairing them up in battle to get to that point.

If your complaint is that the characters are just "unrealistic"...I mean, I guess. By my experience, most fictional characters are "unrealistic" in some fashion, and not just in anime but in most mediums. Even dark and severely flawed characters, I wouldn't really call "realistic". I've not played the other Fire Emblems, and you make no attempt to explain them in your argument, so I guess I just can't really relate here.

The pair-up mechanic is solid. Characters with better relationships make better partners. Characters with an A rank are practically inseparable on the battlefield because they make such a strong unit. Married couples are a forced to be RECKONED with. This mechanic works just as I'd expect it to in an RPG, which tends to leave things up to chance to a certain degree (for instance, no attack in any JRPG is 100% guaranteed to land except in very special cases). I mean, again, I don't know how it was in the other Fire Emblems, but it works pretty great here.

I also don't really understand your complaints over the art style. I mean, every single Fire Emblem game I've seen come west has had anime-ish aesthetics:

http://fireemblem.gameboy.com/gba/launch/_img/wallpapers/fe_wp6_800.jpg

This looks like it came right out of a manga cover. The hair, the way the faces are drawn, the scrawny male lead...this looks like anime concept art. And the in-game portraits for this all have very typical anime faces. So I don't really understand why being anime inspired is an issue now, when as near as I can tell this series has been anime inspired for awhile. I mean, the main character of the first game had BLUE HAIR, which is a pretty typical anime design trope established because many manga characters didn't have established hair color XD (or so I'm told).

And for the record....I didn't buy this game "for the waifus". Nor did I buy it because I'm an otaku (whether or not I am, I don't much care). I bought Awakening because it looked fun. It got great reviews. Perma-death was made optional. That last point is especially important, because I am neurotic about keeping people alive in my games (I have gone out of my way to get every marine in every Halo game to the end of every mission alive when possible, which is a hair pulling experience).

And hey, you know what? I had fun. And I'm coming back for more. It's a shame you don't care for it anymore, but from what I've heard, pretty much the only big and controversial change between this game and previous ones is how perma-death works...