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Forums - Nintendo - Rock Band 4 not coming to Wii U because "the audience is not there"

Mummelmann said:
Materia-Blade said:

I think we would see far more than 9.5 million in 28 months if third parties were professional and released games for the machine. The lack of third parties are the reason why wii u didn't sell much, not the other way around(third parties not being there because the console doesn't sell, that's BS). Surely you cannot fail to see that?

Also, did we see a massive drop in support for ps3 and x360 after their rough start? Did we see good support for wii u at any point? NO.


Number one; the 360 and PS3 never had anywhere near the catastrophic numbers the Wii U has shown. And did you miss the part where the PS3 lost a bunch of support due to slow start, being a year after the 360 and being dodgy to program for? This "everyone has it in for Nintendo" conspiracy has gone way too far, others suffer as well when they make mistakes, and they have the same kind of fans who excuse everything they do. Sony lost exclusivity on Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid series; this is easily among the biggest software news in two decades. The main difference between Sony, MS and Nintendo is that the former two seem to learn from their mistakes and they adapt to the market and end user rather than expecting/hoping for the market and end user to adapt to them, and this is a huge part of the current problems we see in the weekly charts.

Number two; what incentive did 3rd parties have to develop for and publish on the Wii U? The Wii crashed completely while the PS3 and 360 kept on going, the combined installed base of the PS3/360 and a decimated Wii concept made it a no-brainer for most and 3rd party games kept on selling well on these platforms, the incredibly clumsy Gamepad didn't do the Wii U any favors either, people who want tablet audiences to give them money would rather opt for developing mobile games.

The Gamepad was a huge mistake from the beginning and I said as much in spring 2012, about six months before the Wii U released. The numbers were seeing is not some grand conspiracy or 3rd parties willing themselves to stay away from Nintendo out of childish spite; it is due to Nintendo being forced early into the 8th gen when the Wii crashed and a succession of really poor choices, and Iwata's continued insistence that "one game can shift the fortunes of the Wii U" shows that they are willing to keep on making bad decisions and you should be a lot more worried about that at the moment, in my humble opinion.

PS: Mirrored posts with "I'm rubber, you're glue" type of rhetoric does not impress me in the slightest.

Another person that takes that quote out of its context. Next time, read the source material.
The gamepad was not a huge mistake btw. Incredibly clumsy? Maybe the problem isn't the controller, but the person controlling it...

Oh and people predict doom on Nintendo all the time, so that prediction of yours isn't that impressive. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.



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Serious_frusting said:
To be honest. Why encourage your userbase to keep purchasing games on a dead platform?

Best thing to do is focus your resources on a product that sales and the audience will come. Better having your userbase on two consoles instead of three


If i follow your logic, the PC is a dead platform too since he put the PC and the Wii U at the same level.



Chazore said:
Kerotan said:


Except in this case they're going for 2 platforms and not just 1. If its a success they might think of doing a late port to some other platforms.  

 

And if you put a gif, surely it has a meaning. That gif is my face if yours means nothing and you just threw it in. 


What happens when it goes to other platforms much later and doesn't generate lots more money despite having big userbases?, time is money still is a thing in the business and consumer world, I for one am not a fan of waiting for months to years for a game to be ported while one group gets to play the game, I tend not to reward those for not giving me the time of day, if someone gives me the time of day I will do the same in return, you scratch my back and I scratch yours, expect me to be grateful and worship you and you'll face scorn and distaste.

Dunno what you're gettiing at with that last part, you seem to be making a bigger deal about a single gif than the actual topic at this point, it's just a mfw and a gif, that's all there is to it.

You say that yet you will probably buy gta 5. How about Konami delaying mgs5 two weeks on pc for no reason other then they favour consoles.  Or the price of the game bring higher than your average pc release?  Will you hold through and not buy these?  

 

Time is money but not in all cases?  What if this ain't successful?  Ps4 and Xbox One are the two most profitable platforms for them.  If it fails it minimises the damage.  If they go all out and include ps3, 360, wii, wii ,  pc versions then they're gonna lose a lot more money If it fails.  As i said they're playing it safe safe. 

 

Yeah I asked you a simple question what you meant by it. If you actually answered that then we'd not be going on about it.  But you keep avoiding it.  personally I think you meant it in a disrespectful and condescending way and your avoidance to clarify isn't changing my mind. 



slab_of_bacon said:
JazzB1987 said:

Pretty stupid comment. There is no rockband on any new gen console therefore there is no rock band audience on any of the consoles. Devs and publishers should already start to fucking do their job. Whats that job you ask? Convince people to buy products. This is how business works. So stop being lazy. Nintendo gamers dont buy your games? Make them buy them! Morons lol

If third party would have had todays mindset 15 years ago (being lazy always going the way of the least resistance) then Microsoft would never have sold 100m consoles simply due to the fact that the was no xbox 15 years ago and third party would have thought "new console? Naah cant be bothered to do anything. We'll stick with Sony" They are just used to easy money now.


It's their loss.  I've been pretty happy with EA staying away from Nintendo.  


I feel the same way. The last game I bought from EA was BF4 over the PC since I never touched a game made by them.



Kerotan said:
Chazore said:


What happens when it goes to other platforms much later and doesn't generate lots more money despite having big userbases?, time is money still is a thing in the business and consumer world, I for one am not a fan of waiting for months to years for a game to be ported while one group gets to play the game, I tend not to reward those for not giving me the time of day, if someone gives me the time of day I will do the same in return, you scratch my back and I scratch yours, expect me to be grateful and worship you and you'll face scorn and distaste.

Dunno what you're gettiing at with that last part, you seem to be making a bigger deal about a single gif than the actual topic at this point, it's just a mfw and a gif, that's all there is to it.

You say that yet you will probably buy gta 5. How about Konami delaying mgs5 two weeks on pc for no reason other then they favour consoles.  Or the price of the game bring higher than your average pc release?  Will you hold through and not buy these?  

 

Time is money but not in all cases?  What if this ain't successful?  Ps4 and Xbox One are the two most profitable platforms for them.  If it fails it minimises the damage.  If they go all out and include ps3, 360, wii, wii ,  pc versions then they're gonna lose a lot more money If it fails.  As i said they're playing it safe safe. 

 

Yeah I asked you a simple question what you meant by it. If you actually answered that then we'd not be going on about it.  But you keep avoiding it.  personally I think you meant it in a disrespectful and condescending way and your avoidance to clarify isn't changing my mind. 


See there's a difference there with your starting point, GTA V has been delayed multiple times and delayed in general for PC for almost 2 years now, GTA IV was a bad port to PC from R* and that goes down with their history, on the other hand MGGZ released on PC a few months later with better graphics, more settings and overall a really good port (not to mention it was sold cheap from the start because it's a months old game and how it should be), sales rose for them because theyw ere rewarded for actually doing a good job overall and giving us the better version, MGSV being delayed for 2 weeks is really nothing since we know Kojima's team can do a good job and use the strengths of the PC better than R* and with a much shorter delay time than R*, Kojima's team have proven to me they are worth it, R* on the other hand have not and they expect full price for a game almost 2 years old (Which is a common thing PC users do not go for and shouldn't for good reason).

 

Well if they fail on XB1 and PS4 then it;s technically all over, the other two platforms they aren't selling to certainly won't save them if they decide to use them as a last resort, if you fail on the "successful" userbases then you've failed overall, if you fail yet another time and once more after that then I;m sorry but you're doomed to go out of business if you're already that small to begin with.

I answered your simple question with a simple answer; it's just a mfw of how I feel in general, linking it with the word "extatic", you're simply taking it out of hand and trying to create a new meaning that is supposed to have more depth when it really doesn't, it's just a mfw and that's all it will ever be.

"personally I think you meant it in a disrespectful and condescending way and your avoidance to clarify isn't changing my mind."

Personally I think you're egtting your knickers in a twist over a single gif, like I said you're the one projecting it the way you think you see it, not me, I'm just using it as a mfw, literally a facial expression as to how someone feels about something, I'm sorry that I don't share your exact thought and emotional processes.

I'm not avoiding anything though, you're actually trying to make this a big thing than you normally would, if anything you're doing a version of me from a wek or two ago, I've gotten over that but now you're in a reversal order and trying so hard to make it into a big thing to debate with, I'd get over it, the sooner you do the better you'll be.



Mankind, in its arrogance and self-delusion, must believe they are the mirrors to God in both their image and their power. If something shatters that mirror, then it must be totally destroyed.

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Samus Aran said:
Mummelmann said:


Number one; the 360 and PS3 never had anywhere near the catastrophic numbers the Wii U has shown. And did you miss the part where the PS3 lost a bunch of support due to slow start, being a year after the 360 and being dodgy to program for? This "everyone has it in for Nintendo" conspiracy has gone way too far, others suffer as well when they make mistakes, and they have the same kind of fans who excuse everything they do. Sony lost exclusivity on Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid series; this is easily among the biggest software news in two decades. The main difference between Sony, MS and Nintendo is that the former two seem to learn from their mistakes and they adapt to the market and end user rather than expecting/hoping for the market and end user to adapt to them, and this is a huge part of the current problems we see in the weekly charts.

Number two; what incentive did 3rd parties have to develop for and publish on the Wii U? The Wii crashed completely while the PS3 and 360 kept on going, the combined installed base of the PS3/360 and a decimated Wii concept made it a no-brainer for most and 3rd party games kept on selling well on these platforms, the incredibly clumsy Gamepad didn't do the Wii U any favors either, people who want tablet audiences to give them money would rather opt for developing mobile games.

The Gamepad was a huge mistake from the beginning and I said as much in spring 2012, about six months before the Wii U released. The numbers were seeing is not some grand conspiracy or 3rd parties willing themselves to stay away from Nintendo out of childish spite; it is due to Nintendo being forced early into the 8th gen when the Wii crashed and a succession of really poor choices, and Iwata's continued insistence that "one game can shift the fortunes of the Wii U" shows that they are willing to keep on making bad decisions and you should be a lot more worried about that at the moment, in my humble opinion.

PS: Mirrored posts with "I'm rubber, you're glue" type of rhetoric does not impress me in the slightest.

Another person that takes that quote out of its context. Next time, read the source material.
The gamepad was not a huge mistake btw. Incredibly clumsy? Maybe the problem isn't the controller, but the person controlling it...

Oh and people predict doom on Nintendo all the time, so that prediction of yours isn't that impressive. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.


A broken clock? I specifically stated that the Gamepad could cause an identity crisis since they were seemingly out to please two markets with a single device and that I believed that this would cause problems for them. So all the things I ever said that came true are irrelevant because someone else has said something similar? I made quite a few predictions and guesses, in the UNITY thread among other places, and many of them turned out correct, I also predicted the massive decline in handheld console sales many years ago. Overall; I have written about how the industry works and how it would turn out for some time and it has been mostly correct.

As for me being incredibly clumsy; this is more or less a direct personal attack and I would like for you to avoid that if you want to have a discussion. It is my opinion that the bulky design, lack of implementation, low resolution and high cost of production paired with it not even being available for purchase for two player over two years after release and the fact that the market has not responded to it at all as the figures show, make this an incredibly clumsy product, not unlike the mandatory Kinect for the Xbox One was.

Speaking about out of context; "Oh and people predict doom on Nintendo all the time, so that prediction of yours isn't that impressive." How is this even remotely relevant in this context? Am I dooming someone? Don't go on and berate me for taking things out of context when you do the very same thing yourself.



Kerotan and Chazore, knock it off. Stop taking personal jabs at each other and stay on topic.



Materia-Blade said:
Guitarguy said:


He is not unequivocally wrong though.

http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/47/wii-u/

The highest selling non-Nintendo published/developed game on the Wii U is Ubisoft's ZombieU at circa 830,000 units sold worldwide....  This was considered a failure by Ubisoft. In fact, it was stated that it 'was not even close to making a profit'.

http://au.ign.com/articles/2013/07/08/zombiu-wasnt-profitable-no-sequel-planned

It only gets worse from there. Bayonetta II has sold a respectable amount but nothing in correlation to the amazing acclaim(ie 10/10s on major gaming publications). I would wager Bayonetta II cost alot more to produce than ZombiU... I would say Bayonetta II has yet to make a profit either...


Black OPs II, Ghosts, Tekken Tag 2, Assassin's Creed Black Flag, Injustice, Batman Arkham City/Origins, Mass Effect 3, Deus Ex Human Revolution, Splinter Cell Blacklist are all AAA games and all received good to excellent reviews but none of them have sold more than 300,000 copies worldwide.. What chance does a forgotten 'fad' franchise that has been dormant for many years have??

Zombi U was a sucess AND a launch title. If ubisoft couldn't handle the budget, it's their problem.

Bayonetta 2 is selling faster than zombi U and donkey kong tropical freeze. I'ts also faster than the first game on any individual platform.

Not all of those games you listed are AAA. Some were 6 months to 1 year late. But most importantly, they sold ok and released when the installed base was less than half of what it is now. The sales prospects of any multiplatform are much better now, yet they aren't coming. That shows lack of professionalism from third parties. It's as if they wanted an excuse by porting games when the base was low and then stopping when it got better.

Compared to games on PS4 and XB1, Bayonetta 2 and ZombieU have sold VERY less. Infamous: Second Son, whose predecessor sold even less than Bayonetta, sold more in its first week than Bayonetta 2 has sold till date.

Also, its not entirely the userbase which is the problem, the bigger problem on Wii U is demographic. Only Nintendo developed games have sold well on the system. Other games which were good or great were ignored by its userbase, including Bayonetta 2.



Chazore said:
Kerotan said:

You say that yet you will probably buy gta 5. How about Konami delaying mgs5 two weeks on pc for no reason other then they favour consoles.  Or the price of the game bring higher than your average pc release?  Will you hold through and not buy these?  

 

Time is money but not in all cases?  What if this ain't successful?  Ps4 and Xbox One are the two most profitable platforms for them.  If it fails it minimises the damage.  If they go all out and include ps3, 360, wii, wii ,  pc versions then they're gonna lose a lot more money If it fails.  As i said they're playing it safe safe. 

 

Yeah I asked you a simple question what you meant by it. If you actually answered that then we'd not be going on about it.  But you keep avoiding it.  personally I think you meant it in a disrespectful and condescending way and your avoidance to clarify isn't changing my mind. 


See there's a difference there with your starting point, GTA V has been delayed multiple times and delayed in general for PC for almost 2 years now, GTA IV was a bad port to PC from R* and that goes down with their history, on the other hand MGGZ released on PC a few months later with better graphics, more settings and overall a really good port (not to mention it was sold cheap from the start because it's a months old game and how it should be), sales rose for them because theyw ere rewarded for actually doing a good job overall and giving us the better version, MGSV being delayed for 2 weeks is really nothing since we know Kojima's team can do a good job and use the strengths of the PC better than R* and with a much shorter delay time than R*, Kojima's team have proven to me they are worth it, R* on the other hand have not and they expect full price for a game almost 2 years old (Which is a common thing PC users do not go for and shouldn't for good reason).

 

Well if they fail on XB1 and PS4 then it;s technically all over, the other two platforms they aren't selling to certainly won't save them if they decide to use them as a last resort, if you fail on the "successful" userbases then you've failed overall, if you fail yet another time and once more after that then I;m sorry but you're doomed to go out of business if you're already that small to begin with.

I answered your simple question with a simple answer; it's just a mfw of how I feel in general, linking it with the word "extatic", you're simply taking it out of hand and trying to create a new meaning that is supposed to have more depth when it really doesn't, it's just a mfw and that's all it will ever be.

"personally I think you meant it in a disrespectful and condescending way and your avoidance to clarify isn't changing my mind."

Personally I think you're egtting your knickers in a twist over a single gif, like I said you're the one projecting it the way you think you see it, not me, I'm just using it as a mfw, literally a facial expression as to how someone feels about something, I'm sorry that I don't share your exact thought and emotional processes.

I'm not avoiding anything though, you're actually trying to make this a big thing than you normally would, if anything you're doing a version of me from a wek or two ago, I've gotten over that but now you're in a reversal order and trying so hard to make it into a big thing to debate with, I'd get over it, the sooner you do the better you'll be.


I'm sorry but me right now is not what you describe yourself a few days ago.  If you were over it you wouldn't have wrote a super long reply.  All it takes is one sentence to explain what it means.  Yes it's a facial expression but facial expressions mean something.  It's really quite simple. 

 

Regarding the topic at hand I'm not sure you comprehended what I was saying.  I'm saying that if they fail on the 2 best platforms for this game then they would have failed with all the others included.  At least it they only fail on x1 and ps4 the damage is limited.  But if they expand to all their lessor platforms then they would be fucked as the losses would be far bigger.  They are in the business of making money and I'm sure if this is a success they will take the risk of going to other platforms in particular the pc. 



Mummelmann said:
Samus Aran said:

Another person that takes that quote out of its context. Next time, read the source material.
The gamepad was not a huge mistake btw. Incredibly clumsy? Maybe the problem isn't the controller, but the person controlling it...

Oh and people predict doom on Nintendo all the time, so that prediction of yours isn't that impressive. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.


A broken clock? I specifically stated that the Gamepad could cause an identity crisis since they were seemingly out to please two markets with a single device and that I believed that this would cause problems for them. So all the things I ever said that came true are irrelevant because someone else has said something similar? I made quite a few predictions and guesses, in the UNITY thread among other places, and many of them turned out correct, I also predicted the massive decline in handheld console sales many years ago. Overall; I have written about how the industry works and how it would turn out for some time and it has been mostly correct.

As for me being incredibly clumsy; this is more or less a direct personal attack and I would like for you to avoid that if you want to have a discussion. It is my opinion that the bulky design, lack of implementation, low resolution and high cost of production paired with it not even being available for purchase for two player over two years after release and the fact that the market has not responded to it at all as the figures show, make this an incredibly clumsy product, not unlike the mandatory Kinect for the Xbox One was.

Speaking about out of context; "Oh and people predict doom on Nintendo all the time, so that prediction of yours isn't that impressive." How is this even remotely relevant in this context? Am I dooming someone? Don't go on and berate me for taking things out of context when you do the very same thing yourself.

I was refering to the fact that every time Nintendo does something there's always some people that predict doom. Obviously they're going to be right at some point. So I'm not impressed by doom predictions, regardless of who made them. Unless they did some actual market research which only big companies have access to. Loads of people predicted the Wii and DS to fail as well.

Like I said, your predictions aren't impressive considering you don't have the tools to make a well researched prediction. You just got "lucky". This isn't meant as an insult to you, I just don't take predictions on the internet serious, even if they turn out to be correct. I can predict we'll have a Kid Icarus game in 2016, but it would just be a guess, even if it turned out to be true.

And it's not a personal attack. I find the gamepad to be an incredibly comfortable controller. So the problem has to lie elsewhere. I have incredibly tiny hands, so how can it be too bulky for you? I've never met a guy with smaller hands than me. =D

If anything is clumsy, it's Nintendo's marketing. They still have warnings in the store I buy games that Wii U games don't work on the Wii. Nintendo's console would've failed even with a traditional controller. Just look at the GC.