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Forums - Nintendo - Since Wii U failed, what should Nintendo have done to follow up the Wii's success?

 

Could Nintendo have realistically produced another Wii-like success?

Yes. Nintendo magic. Just not the Wii U. 131 28.85%
 
No. Wii was a one time th... 262 57.71%
 
Yo Mama 61 13.44%
 
Total:454
oniyide on 18 February 2015
Materia-Blade said:
oniyide said:

Couldnt one say the same about any big popular game? And what of stuff like GTA that also puts up big numbers were they also brainswashed. It seems people will find any negative reason to hate on a game they dont like doing well. 

The market decides what they want to play period. Your logic is flawed because you are attaching emotion to it. THeir is no hate for Nintendo from MOST people, they put out a product that people simply didnt care about. It's taht simple. So im showing ignorance but people who say every COD is the same isnt? THat sounds bias, and whats funny is that people have yet to tell me im wrong. What is the big differences between say the NSMB games? How is that any different than the CODs and ACs or any other sequels in the world?

GTA sales are clearly not proportional to the game. it only sells as much because of marketing.

So now you're changing from "the market decides who is doing right" to "The market decides what they want to play", that's quite a difference.

People don't say cod is the same because of the number of games, they say it because of what the games are. they release every year with little to no change.

the difference between nsmb/other sequels and cod? nsmb and others tend to change level design and mechanics enough that make them completely different games than their predecessors. and it certainly makes it easier that they release once or twice in a generation.

Plenty games get marketed and dont do anywhere near GTA numbers. Just admit that its a game that people like and want to play which is why it is selling, to say is all marketing is lying to yourself. 

Whats the difference?

What mechanics were different in the NSMB games. One added MP another added the gold rush the last one added some things added some gamepad feature. You really gonna tell me that NSMB Wii U is completly different from NSMB Wii? Please. The only difference is they are not yearly which IMHO makes it even worse because there should be MORE changes. Hell AC did just as much if not more when it went annual. Brotherhood added a whole MP component. Revelations added tower defense and 1st person platforming, 3 added ship battles and different econony system. refined the brotherhood system. 4 expanded on the ship battles, Unity added MP co-op, etc.



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oniyide on 18 February 2015
freebs2 said:
oniyide said:

 

Does it matter about what exactly? I don't think I understand your question. This thread is about what Nintendo should have done to follow up Wii success, I'm not "bringing up" Wii success to prove some point, the Wii success is the topic of this thread. Can you please expain better what do you mean?

As for the second question, no that's not what they did.

Amiibos are the only exception, and they were very late to market, compared to activision and disney - timing is important.

They didn't push digital distribution. Yes they have digital distribution now, but their digital games are as expansive as phisical copies. The whole meaning of DD should be to tear down prices (since you don't have distribution costs), after all smartphones and tablets are solely based on digital distribution.

They have partially expanded their first party studios but not for the purpose of making more games, their purpose was making "bigger" games, more expansive productions. That startegy works for Sony/MS since they can count on 3rd party support, the strategy for Nintendo should have been to create a larger number of "smaller" titles. That's clearly not what they did.

Cross-buy is a feature that probably WiiU and 3DS successors will natively have, most probably. That's one generation too late, again timing is important. Nintendo is stuck in the cycle of developing 2 titles for each of their series (one for home consoles, one for handleds) every generation and this have 2 important consequences: they're wasting resources that could be spent developing a larger library with more variety, and second they're cannibalizing themselves (take New Super Mario Bros 2 and New Super Mario Bros U for instance).

More connectivity and social media integration: the online capabilites of WiiU are still very limited both in terms of services and gaming. They haven't integrated anything in terms of social media, they've made miiverse which is very poor attempt to make a proprietary SN. The whole menaning of social network is connecting with people with a profile page and sharing content. Miiverse is exclusive to WiiU users, so there are not many to connect with anyway, you don't have a personalized profile page (except for your Mii), you can't share anything but black and white drawings, and in general is very slow and limited. It's really more like a forum than a SN. But more importatly, the Wii was about "inclusuion" while the Miiverse was made with an "exclusive" mentality. If they really wanted to push social gaming they should have implemented their consoles with "real world" social network like Facebook, Twitter, etc. They should have implemented cross platform multiplayer with friends on FB, game related status updates, etc. etc. Sony did a much better jod on social integration with Twitch on Ps4.

Also, if they wanted to follow up Wii success the console itslelf should have been cheaper, not only compared to the WiiU but also compared to the Wii since the motion control thingy was not a novely anymore, 199$ could have been a correct launch price point, for sure not 349$.

I hear and everything you are saying makes sense, but IMHO all those things are being done better by...well just about everybody else and if im being really honest the others have been doing a better job at it since before the WIi U even hit the market. Like you even said timing is everything and they've been late too the ball too many times.

I dont agree with the expansion part, arent they doing exactly that with games like Hyrule Warriors? Wasnt that the point of getting Bayo 2? Hell i would even put Mario Maker and Splatoon in that category. 

Thing is i dont even think the WIi (soccer moms and grannys) even care about those things. And if they did as i stated before literally everyone else has been doing a much better job than Ninty ever did on those fronts.

So to simplify, there was nothing they could have done, I mean there were better options but anything still would have been a big drop. a Wii 2 would probably be doing n64 numbers which is better but still not great.



Soundwave on 18 February 2015
Materia-Blade said:
Soundwave said:
To be honest I'm not really even sure if Nintendo is capable of selling much more than 20 million home consoles anymore unless there is a miracle gimmick attached to the whole sales proposition. Even the N64 ... if people knew going in wasn't going to be like the NES and SNES in terms of overall support and understood the economics of the cartridge vs. CD decision and everything that entailed ... the N64 probably would've sold considerably less.

A lot of people bought the N64 early on with the expectation that it would be like the NES and SNES.

And to be fair I don't think Sony/MS would sell much more either with the same level of third party support.

People by and large simply don't want a console with a specialized/niche library, when they buy a console they want access to all the games. Wii U is just a return to the norm for Nintendo, taking them back to the trajectory they were on before the Wii.

The other thing is Wii sales really declined fast once MS introduced Kinect and Sony introduced Move ... suddenly motion gaming on a console was nothing special or exclusive to any of the brands, they all had it. That's also a problem with basing your whole sales pitch around a controller -- anyone can copy a controller. Analog stick, rumble pak, wand controller, all copied eventually. Nintendo is probably actually lucky that Kinect didn't launch in 2008 or 2009.

There's not any point in predicting sales of unannounced consoles without basis.

sony/ms would barely sell any unit without third parties.

Wii sales didn't decline BECAUSE of kinect or move.

Actually I wouldn't be so sure about that. 

People always say "well Nintendo stopped releasing games" but the Wii was never contingent on having "big releases" constantly to begin with, and certainly things like "release more killer apps like Smash Brothers and Zelda!" weren't what drove the Wii to success in the first place. 

Really actually the Wii was just getting Just Dance (a huge seller) at that time and uDraw, so third parties were delivering the goods for Nintendo from the POV of providing new casual hits that should have kept the system selling high. Just Dance was a much bigger hit than Wii Music or Animal Crossing for instance. 

Yet we see a large decline in Wii sales after Kinect and Move release in late 2010. As a matter of fact after the release of Kinect, I think the Wii only outsold the XBox 360 ever again like for one month total. I don't think that was coincidence. What made the Wii unique/special was the motion gaming aspect, when it became standardized on all three consoles, the Wii suddenly wasn't so special anymore. 

That said the whole Wii/Move/Kinect pissing match would be rendered moot fairly soon anyway, as the iOS/Google Play store would steal all of their thunder. Today, smartphones and tablets have virtually monopolized the casual player market entirely because they offer a business model that consoles can't compete with ($1/free games, easy to play, thousands to choose from, on far sexier, more desirable hardware from a casuals POV). 



Eddie_Raja on 18 February 2015

They couldn't have created another Wii phenomena, but they could have done far better than the Wii U. Really their next move was simple:

-Release in 2011 instead of 2012
-Release with something at least 3-4 times stronger than the Wii U (HD 6670, quad-core cpu, 4GB of RAM, HDD)
-No Tablet
-Call it "Nintendo HD"
-Have a unified online system that is at least as good as the PSN back in 2006

Back in 2011 the Wii still had some good will going, and a name like Nintendo HD would have sent a clear message as to what the system is. The components I proposed are not that expensive and with no tablet jacking up the price they could have easily sold this thing for $300-$400. Then in 2013 the NHD would have been out for 2 years as the ONLY HD console, and it would probably be $200-$300 to compete with the PS4/X1 release.

No it wouldn't have sold gangbusters, but it would have done well 30-40+ million.



Prediction for console Lifetime sales:

Wii:100-120 million, PS3:80-110 million, 360:70-100 million

[Prediction Made 11/5/2009]

3DS: 65m, PSV: 22m, Wii U: 18-22m, PS4: 80-120m, X1: 35-55m

I gauruntee the PS5 comes out after only 5-6 years after the launch of the PS4.

[Prediction Made 6/18/2014]

Eddie_Raja on 18 February 2015
padib said:
Eddie_Raja said:
They couldn't have created another Wii phenomena, but they could have done far better than the Wii U. Really their next move was simple:

-Release in 2011 instead of 2012
-Release with something at least 3-4 times stronger than the Wii U (HD 6670, quad-core cpu, 4GB of RAM, HDD)
-No Tablet
-Call it "Nintendo HD"
-Have a unified online system that is at least as good as the PSN back in 2006

Back in 2011 the Wii still had some good will going, and a name like Nintendo HD would have sent a clear message as to what the system is. The components I proposed are not that expensive and with no tablet jacking up the price they could have easily sold this thing for $300-$400. Then in 2013 the NHD would have been out for 2 years as the ONLY HD console, and it would probably be $200-$300 to compete with the PS4/X1 release.

No it wouldn't have sold gangbusters, but it would have done well 30-40+ million.

Nobody would have bought the 3rd party HD games made for it and the problem would have been identical.

Why?  It would have run them FAR better than the PS3 and had a competent online component.  If Nintendo could match PS/MS on everything and then add Nintendo exclusives on top of it... They would have another decent hit.



Prediction for console Lifetime sales:

Wii:100-120 million, PS3:80-110 million, 360:70-100 million

[Prediction Made 11/5/2009]

3DS: 65m, PSV: 22m, Wii U: 18-22m, PS4: 80-120m, X1: 35-55m

I gauruntee the PS5 comes out after only 5-6 years after the launch of the PS4.

[Prediction Made 6/18/2014]

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Eddie_Raja on 19 February 2015
padib said:
Eddie_Raja said:

Why?  It would have run them FAR better than the PS3 and had a competent online component.  If Nintendo could match PS/MS on everything and then add Nintendo exclusives on top of it... They would have another decent hit.

Because the problem of sales on Nintendo home consoles is not a question of horsepower, but a question of brand power. Nintendo has not paid and shows no intention to pay the kind of money that's required to attract the market Sony and MS went after, be it in advertising on Sports events, involving high-production ads, loss-leading, money-hatting, etc.

Not only that, but a competent online component has really little to do with horsepower, it has to do with infrastructure and software development, which can already be achieved on the U because they are independent of the U's architecture. If Nintendo hasn't satisfied you with their online offerings on the U, it follows that the same problem would exist on the architecture you're suggesting.

Just being honest.


Buddy, it's both.  You have no idea (Or you probably do) how many people say they won't get a Nintendo console because the hardware is garbage.  Also, you can count a bad network as part of the console.  They are both tied to each other, and without a good network a modern console is just not - modern.



Prediction for console Lifetime sales:

Wii:100-120 million, PS3:80-110 million, 360:70-100 million

[Prediction Made 11/5/2009]

3DS: 65m, PSV: 22m, Wii U: 18-22m, PS4: 80-120m, X1: 35-55m

I gauruntee the PS5 comes out after only 5-6 years after the launch of the PS4.

[Prediction Made 6/18/2014]

SjOne on 19 February 2015
Eddie_Raja said:
They couldn't have created another Wii phenomena, but they could have done far better than the Wii U. Really their next move was simple:

-Release in 2011 instead of 2012
-Release with something at least 3-4 times stronger than the Wii U (HD 6670, quad-core cpu, 4GB of RAM, HDD)
-No Tablet
-Call it "Nintendo HD"
-Have a unified online system that is at least as good as the PSN back in 2006

Back in 2011 the Wii still had some good will going, and a name like Nintendo HD would have sent a clear message as to what the system is. The components I proposed are not that expensive and with no tablet jacking up the price they could have easily sold this thing for $300-$400. Then in 2013 the NHD would have been out for 2 years as the ONLY HD console, and it would probably be $200-$300 to compete with the PS4/X1 release.

No it wouldn't have sold gangbusters, but it would have done well 30-40+ million.

Releasing one year earlier would've been a disaster. They didn't handle HD development well in the first year on the market, that flaw would've been more apparent if it was on the market for even longer.

Nintendo would've been even more in the red if it were more powerful. Nintendo infamously likes using their own tech over what is standard. People would still buy multiplats on PlayStation and Xbox platforms like they did during the 6th gen. Without the funds gained from software it'd be harder to offset the loses from an even more powerful machine.

Nintendo hasn't used their name for the console since the N64 and I doubt they ever will again. Most likely to give each new console its own identity rather than a bland name like "Nintendo HD".

Gamers don't want an online as good as past standards they want something as competitive as today's standards. PSN may have not started with same functionality as XBL at the time but they quickly upgraded to then become pioneers in many aspects of online gaming. This behavior is what Nintendo should replicate.

I doubt that anything Nintendo does can reverse the downward trend of their console because they always want to stay behind the curve and rely more on gimmicks than aggressively pioneering new industry leading ideas. Instead of trying to be a core console they try to make a secondary console that has too crutches to stand on its own, and that's something that puts off many consumers.



Tachikoma on 19 February 2015

Regardless of the reasons, the WiiU is pretty much done, it sprinted off the line and got cramp, and is destined to spend the rest of the race walking with its hand on its side, every now and then pushing for a brief brisk job to try and keep up but never really having a chance.

Thats how i see it, anyway.

As for what they could have done, the answer is:

* Used a different name, so people didnt think it was an addon / avoided general confusion
* Marketed it better, or rather, "marketed it at all".
* Had a more solid lineup and first year
* Not released the same titles on the more successful, and popular 3DS.
* Not brought up games that they would eventually delay extensively
* Not abandoned the Wii a few years before the WiiU like a jerry springer father abandons his child a few years before DNA.



Eddie_Raja on 19 February 2015
SjOne said:
Eddie_Raja said:
They couldn't have created another Wii phenomena, but they could have done far better than the Wii U. Really their next move was simple:

-Release in 2011 instead of 2012
-Release with something at least 3-4 times stronger than the Wii U (HD 6670, quad-core cpu, 4GB of RAM, HDD)
-No Tablet
-Call it "Nintendo HD"
-Have a unified online system that is at least as good as the PSN back in 2006

Back in 2011 the Wii still had some good will going, and a name like Nintendo HD would have sent a clear message as to what the system is. The components I proposed are not that expensive and with no tablet jacking up the price they could have easily sold this thing for $300-$400. Then in 2013 the NHD would have been out for 2 years as the ONLY HD console, and it would probably be $200-$300 to compete with the PS4/X1 release.

No it wouldn't have sold gangbusters, but it would have done well 30-40+ million.

Releasing one year earlier would've been a disaster. They didn't handle HD development well in the first year on the market, that flaw would've been more apparent if it was on the market for even longer.

Duh, they would have needed to figure out a way to handle it better.  Paying for third party exclusives would have been the obvious choice until they got their shit together  (Bayonetta isn't near enough).

Nintendo would've been even more in the red if it were more powerful. Nintendo infamously likes using their own tech over what is standard. People would still buy multiplats on PlayStation and Xbox platforms like they did during the 6th gen. Without the funds gained from software it'd be harder to offset the loses from an even more powerful machine.

Not at all true.  I can build a PC right now WITH WINDOWS INCLUDED that blows the Wii U out of the water for less than $300.  That tablet is the ONLY reason it is overpriced. 

Nintendo hasn't used their name for the console since the N64 and I doubt they ever will again. Most likely to give each new console its own identity rather than a bland name like "Nintendo HD".

Yeah but Nintendo's brand was STRONG in 2011.  People were just getting over the Wii and were looking for something new.  Those 8 year olds were now 13, and wanted a big boy console.  Nintendo could have answered them with a strong brand name.  Hell NES2 wouldn't have been a bad idea either.

Gamers don't want an online as good as past standards they want something as competitive as today's standards. PSN may have not started with same functionality as XBL at the time but they quickly upgraded to then become pioneers in many aspects of online gaming. This behavior is what Nintendo should replicate.

I mean that is what I was saying so idk why you told me this.

I doubt that anything Nintendo does can reverse the downward trend of their console because they always want to stay behind the curve and rely more on gimmicks than aggressively pioneering new industry leading ideas. Instead of trying to be a core console they try to make a secondary console that has too crutches to stand on its own, and that's something that puts off many consumers.

The whole point of this thread is to talk about what Nintendo should have done.  Notice that I didn't say my idea would have sould gangbusters, but it would have easily doubled the Wii U's sales.  Instead Nintendo further alienated third parties and consumers.

^In Bold



Prediction for console Lifetime sales:

Wii:100-120 million, PS3:80-110 million, 360:70-100 million

[Prediction Made 11/5/2009]

3DS: 65m, PSV: 22m, Wii U: 18-22m, PS4: 80-120m, X1: 35-55m

I gauruntee the PS5 comes out after only 5-6 years after the launch of the PS4.

[Prediction Made 6/18/2014]

SjOne on 19 February 2015

You can't just "figure out" how to manage staff to helm Wii U games in 2012 when already had their hands full with 3DS games. Unless you'd rather there be a longer drought period. There's absolutely no benefit launching a year earlier.

Mass producing a product is different from building a singular PC. 3DS was just as powerful as a PSP and Nintendo still lost huge amount of money on it during its early years. The price cut brought on bigger losses into ally but fortunately for them the system rebounded because their expertise in handheld market that isn't there with the console market. Even without the Gamepad, more powerful hardware would've still been even more costly. No price cut would've saved them, not like they could've afforded to. They can't even price cut the Wii U now.

Nintendo's is strong every year. It wouldn't have made a difference what year Wii U would've launch the fate would've been the same. The name of a console isn't going to make or break a console. I still think Xbox One is a stupid and confusing name but people grew accustomed to the console itself. Why would they put a 2 at the end of any console when that's Sony's thing?

I'm just saying Wii U is doomed to fail because of Nintendo's old school ways