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Forums - Nintendo - The best response i've seen about third party from a Nintendo fan.

Wow, I can't get through that video at all. It's not even what he says, it's how he says it. His use of language is not at all graceful. He doesn't sound anything like Will Smith, dude.



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Turkish said:
"I stumbled onto this guy Shokio"

This was your first mistake. This guy is biased as hell looking at his older videos. There are many more like him.


He could be biased, but as a Nintendo fan, he seems to have a realistic understand of the Nintendo situation. What videos would you recommend I look up revealing his bias?



Soundwave said:
Mr Khan said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

I stumbled onto this guy Shokio, while looking up videos on peoples thoughts of Nintendo and the third party situation on Youtube. This has to be one the most well balanced responses to Nintendo fans and non-nintendo fans alike.. He also sounds like Will Smith as well (which is pretty funny to me).

Key points (omitting the DS)

Third party conspiracy:

- There is no conspiracy

-Nintendo has to own up to their mistakes (Primary problem)

- Western third party definitely have a bias (Secondary problem)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft_0WKTc3CI

Certainly fair. It's obvious Nintendo could do more, but folks have to realize that there's fault on the West end as well.


Why should Western developers support Nintendo? This isn't a marriage, this is more like a single guy at a nightclub. No girl is entitled to just fall at his feet, if she likes his advances great, if she doesn't though that isn't her fault. 

And to be honest Western support for the Wii U was a helluva lot better than the Japanese support, Japanese devs get off scott free from Nintendo fans for some reason though. Sega's the only Japanese developer that supported the Wii U and even their Sonic games sucked ass. 

I'm thinking about the jerking-around that EA gave them, or Ubisoft holding back a finished game for, apparently, no reason. Or Ubisoft's fuckery with Rayman Legends.

Have to admit that Nintendo platforms get bad treatment that nobody else gets, while there is little cause for western third parties to provide support on the level of Nintendo's rivals, some of what has gone on is beyond the pale.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Soundwave said:

The funny thing about this is Japanese 3rd parties treat Nintendo consoles like sh*t. 

Worse than the Western third parties that Nintendo fans always try to scapegoat. 

What's Konami done for Wii U? Where's Square-Enix? Namco-Bandai, supposedly Nintendo's closest ally, are happy to take contracted projects from Nintendo, but they won't support the Wii U with their own internal IP ... the PS4/X1 get Tekken 7, the Wii U doesn't get a sniff. 

Then there's Nintendo "loyal friend" Capcom, all they've given the Wii U is two HD ports of existing 3DS games and nothing else. Couldn't even be bothered to throw the Wii U a bone with a RE REmake port (available for PS3, PS4, X1, X360, PC) or Revelations 2, even though the Vita (Vita! lol) gets a port of it. 

Japanese companies treat the Vita better than the Wii U. At least Western companies kinda tried for a couple of years with things like Zombi U, Rayman Legends, Call of Duty: BLOPS2 (best use of the Wiimote pointer in a shooter), Call of Duty: Ghosts, Splinter Cell, Batman: Arkham, Assassin's Creed III/IV, etc 

To be honest games like Zombi U, Deus Ex, Batman: Arkham City, Rayman Legends ... while not perfect, they utilize the Wii U tablet better than basically any Nintendo game. 

I agree. Western devs deserve better from Nintendo and Nintendo deserves better from Japanese devs.

From the western side, Nintendo should continue emulating the model they established with Lego City Undercover. Use a developer's existing capabilities to develop exclusives worth giving a damn about. I'm sure Treyarch would be happy to develop a new FPS, and Activision would probably lend them away for a decent price. Ubisoft is full of Nintendo-based talent that really haven't been given the proper stage to really be successful.

I do think some releases like Tekken 7 are a moot point. There's no denying it'd be a technically inferior port -- even things like Mario and Zelda costumes couldn't really gather must interest in TT2 for WiiU.

As for Capcom, seems like everyone's still holding out for a new Megaman...



I predict NX launches in 2017 - not 2016

As much as I love Nintendo these problems date back to the days when they bossed 3rd parties around and later ignored their preference for the transition to optical media and stuck with cartridges for the N64, still only meeting them half way years later on the GameCube.

All you hear from 3rd party developers is their complaints that Nintendo is difficult to communicate with, let alone work with, and Nintendo has always had something of a deaf ear to their desires. It's no coincidence that when other consoles are down (such as the PS3 initially, the original Xbox) you don't hear much from developers, but the moment Nintendo is down and said 3rd party developers are no longer working with them you hear person after person seemingly venting all their past frustrations about the company and its console. They'll keep the muzzle on when there's money to be made, but it's clear that many don't enjoy working with Nintendo.

Nintendo just seems to live in its own little bubble; I'm not at all surprised that they lack 3rd party support. This talk of "bias" is mostly silly, as this is entirely a situation of Nintendo's own making.



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Mr Khan said:
Soundwave said:


Why should Western developers support Nintendo? This isn't a marriage, this is more like a single guy at a nightclub. No girl is entitled to just fall at his feet, if she likes his advances great, if she doesn't though that isn't her fault. 

And to be honest Western support for the Wii U was a helluva lot better than the Japanese support, Japanese devs get off scott free from Nintendo fans for some reason though. Sega's the only Japanese developer that supported the Wii U and even their Sonic games sucked ass. 

I'm thinking about the jerking-around that EA gave them, or Ubisoft holding back a finished game for, apparently, no reason. Or Ubisoft's fuckery with Rayman Legends.

Have to admit that Nintendo platforms get bad treatment that nobody else gets, while there is little cause for western third parties to provide support on the level of Nintendo's rivals, some of what has gone on is beyond the pale.


Sony and Microsoft get perks with third party because they work with third party. If third parties have to downport at least their fanbases will support their games well enough to be more than profitable. I mean look at Mass Effect, Battlefield, Dragon Age, Assassins Creed & Watchdogs. Those games have flourished on non-Nintendo platforms. As I said before with Konami and Square Enix. When Sony had come into the gaming industry and increased the popularity of gaming upon entrance, companies like Square became partners with them because Sony actually distributed products for them and took stock in the company. Konami put MGS on Sony's platform for format reasons. Nintendo refused at the time to go to the CD because they were complaining about pirating issues. The funny thing is they were the ones who tried to hire a worker for Sony (Without Sony's consent) to create a CD-rom for their next console anyway. 



The thing is at this point as well I think it's too late anyway.

Third parties historically have only really needed two home console platforms to adequately get a large enough audience.

Three has generally proven to be a headache for third parties, it adds resources needed to make yet another version of the same game and usually the third platform of the bunch has far lower third party sales than the others.

This doesn't just apply to Nintendo, take Turbo Grafx 16 ... developers overwhelmingly chose to support the SNES and Genesis.

The only difference is today the PS4 and XBox One are the new SNES and Genesis. The Wii U unfortunately is the new Turbo Grafx 16 (the third wheel system that nobody supports).

Nintendo is the one that manoeuvred themselves from being in a market leadership position with third parties into the position they are now where virtually all of their retail console support is gone.



I do agree, both Nintendo and the third party companies are to blame. I hope Nintendo tries to amend their situation for their next console since I don't believe that many more large amounts of third party games are coming to the system at this point.



Devs really don't have a problem with 3 systems (heck they've been porting to four recently when you include the Xbox 360 and PS3) but it's too costly when the porting process is as difficult as it is for the Wii U, from figuring out how to work with their strange architecture to having to come up with some use for the game pad while scaling down their game so that it runs smoothly on the underpowered hardware... If the Wii U was selling as well as the Wii did you can be sure they'd be developing for it but it's just not worth doing now.

 

Three has never been too much for devs (they were working with three just fine last gen), it's just about money. People didn't develop for the turbo grafx because no one in the west had a turbo grafx. If the Wii U was a similar build to the Xbox 1 and PS4 and was easy to port to, they'd be porting to it right now. As things stand, though, the process is too difficult and the install base too small to justify it.



Soundwave said:
fleischr said:
I like Shokio.

On the other side of the coin, you could say Nintendo has a bias for working with Japanese-based companies. Nintendo's farmed out some 3rd party exclusives from Japanese devs like Bayo 2 and Devil's Third, but probably never once took a look at securing western-developed games like Evolve or Titanfall as exclusives (which honestly, they could have done with the right amount of money). Companies like Bandai Namco, Koei Tecmo, and Capcom usually are the only other large publishers allowed to work with Nintendo's IP.


The funny thing about this is Japanese 3rd parties treat Nintendo consoles like sh*t. 

Worse than the Western third parties that Nintendo fans always try to scapegoat. 

What's Konami done for Wii U? Where's Square-Enix? Namco-Bandai, supposedly Nintendo's closest ally, are happy to take contracted projects from Nintendo, but they won't support the Wii U with their own internal IP ... the PS4/X1 get Tekken 7, the Wii U doesn't get a sniff. 

Then there's Nintendo "loyal friend" Capcom, all they've given the Wii U is two HD ports of existing 3DS games and nothing else. Couldn't even be bothered to throw the Wii U a bone with a RE REmake port (available for PS3, PS4, X1, X360, PC) or Revelations 2, even though the Vita (Vita! lol) gets a port of it. 

Japanese companies treat the Vita better than the Wii U. At least Western companies kinda tried for a couple of years with things like Zombi U, Rayman Legends, Call of Duty: BLOPS2 (best use of the Wiimote pointer in a shooter), Call of Duty: Ghosts, Splinter Cell, Batman: Arkham, Assassin's Creed III/IV, etc 

To be honest games like Zombi U, Deus Ex, Batman: Arkham City, Rayman Legends ... while not perfect, they utilize the Wii U tablet better than basically any Nintendo game. 


100% agree with your post especially the Japanese devs.

I am some what devistated there is no Revelations 2 on Wii U. I did but it on 3DS then upgrade to Wii U one. Sure I could get it on PS4 but I kind of like having the same line of games on the same system.

Sad part is the devs that did try got shunned by Nintendo gamers because of stupid reasons like oh the fps is 2-5fps less and gfx worst than PS4 without rating the game on the merit the system was capable of. 

All the games you listed had flaws but none that did not warrant a buy if you are a single console owner. I would also add to that Need for speed was well done.

The biggest mistake those fans made was get mad about a few shitty ports from EA (they do that on all consoles anyway) and Ubisoft delaying Rayman which resulted in boycotts. In the end this ended the way we see it now, devs walked away. I think Ubisoft of them all provided three great games as a gesture for delaying Rayman Legends. But sadly people did not see the postive in it but rather focused to much on the negative.