Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Is the Xbox One a failure?

Is XB1 a failure?

Yes! 615 40.51%
 
No! 711 46.84%
 
Gimme dem numbers! 68 4.48%
 
I pity Wii U :( 121 7.97%
 
Total:1,515

I distinctly recall reading comments from certain Xbox fans that success is measured by profits. In this regard, it seems to me that the Xbox One would be considered a failure by such fans.



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with that price tag it is total failure, cause it doesn't make sense to pay the same amount of cash for a less capable console, with those kind of specs I think it should cost no more than 280 bucks.

Also lacks exclusives
Horrible installation times
DRM is still heavily present
Multiplataforms barely hits 1080p almost all of them are 900p, in a world that the main resolution is at least full HD.

Overall the xbone was made with television in mind I mean just look last years presentation,it was focus only about TV, sports and movies, games where totally last place in that announcement.



Zackasaurus-rex said:

It's losing massive marketshare  versus PlayStation relative to the 360's gains, so MS certainly think it is. Consoles are selling faster and earlier because of today's early adopter culture, but MS are losing brutally where it counts: Percentage of the market.


so wait with that line of thinking iPhone has been the most massive failure in tech devices history with every new device ever since Android entered the market and literally dwarfed it 8 to 1???

market share is meaningless apple has been proving it for close to a decade now that you can easily make monstrous amounts of money while being second by huge margin on almost every single segment of the industry. Software monetization is where it is at, so no matter the market share if MS sells more XBO so far than 360 and keep selling as much software and services than last Gen they are doing better than last Gen period no matter how the market shares fluctuate. So no so far it is still a success even for MS, maybe not the one they expected but a success never the less



nanarchy said:
ZarskiSold said:
nanarchy said:

huh? by most metrics they are actually wildly successful, they just aren't as successful as Sony this gen, your opinion that they must be first to be successful is really irrelevant to a business. both PS and XB are probably borderline on profit or loss, neither is making much money, niether is losing much money either.

you are nuts if you think that, price cuts and free games lower 3rd party sales is costing one of them big time.

they have had a $50 price cut, The XB1 is also cheaper to produce than the PS4. The bundling has been pretty similiar so far to PS4, some bundles with one extra game which they would likely get very good deals on as obviously they don't have to pay themselves the licensing fees etc.  the 3rd party sales relative to the hardware volume sold are actually very high, they have a good attach rate. neither will be making much early in the gen, nor would they expect too.

No, it is not. Why would you think that a hardware that has almost double the transistor count of a competing hardware would cost less to produce?

The PS4 architecture is the work of a genius. The GDDR5 RAM saved SONY from implementing embedded memory and move engines, saving them tons of money. Microsoft's decision to use DDR3 RAM forced them to include lots of customized (IE Expensive) parts that the PS4 doesn't need.

As time goes on, the PS4 will continue to drop in price as GDDR5 RAM technology improves. The Xbone's BOM, on the other hand, will continue to rise, as DDR3 RAM prices will shoot up as manufacturing goes down.

I expect Microsoft to restart a new generation in 2 years like what they did with the original Xbox.



endimion said:
Zackasaurus-rex said:

It's losing massive marketshare  versus PlayStation relative to the 360's gains, so MS certainly think it is. Consoles are selling faster and earlier because of today's early adopter culture, but MS are losing brutally where it counts: Percentage of the market.


so wait with that line of thinking iPhone has been the most massive failure in tech devices history with every new device ever since Android entered the market and literally dwarfed it 8 to 1???

market share is meaningless apple has been proving it for close to a decade now that you can easily make monstrous amounts of money while being second by huge margin on almost every single segment of the industry. Software monetization is where it is at, so no matter the market share if MS sells more XBO so far than 360 and keep selling as much software and services than last Gen they are doing better than last Gen period no matter how the market shares fluctuate. So no so far it is still a success even for MS, maybe not the one they expected but a success never the less

And what is the iPhone's profit margin? Apple uses low quality parts to improve their bottom line. Last I checked, their phones were selling at $600 when they cost around $150 to make. 

As for your remarks about software monetization, Microsoft lost that too. Most of the people subscribed to Xbox LIVE Gold are now on PS+. I'm surprised that no one mentions this, but multiplayer games on the Xbone feel dead compared to PS4 multiplayer games. It's hard to find a match on titanfall or CoD: AW. Games also sell much better on the PlayStation this gen in every single country.

Microsoft's best bet this generation is not to try to make a profit. Their recent firesales show us that they understand this. Microsoft does not expect to make a profit this generation. Their only chance is to prevent as many 360 owners from switching over to the PS4 so that they have a chance with the next Xbox, and the only way they can do that is through deals. I'm hoping that they remove their multiplayer paywall, because paying to play online is some form of bullcrap, but I won't get my hopes up. Microsoft won't make a profit this generation.



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AlexJones said:
endimion said:

so wait with that line of thinking iPhone has been the most massive failure in tech devices history with every new device ever since Android entered the market and literally dwarfed it 8 to 1???

market share is meaningless apple has been proving it for close to a decade now that you can easily make monstrous amounts of money while being second by huge margin on almost every single segment of the industry. Software monetization is where it is at, so no matter the market share if MS sells more XBO so far than 360 and keep selling as much software and services than last Gen they are doing better than last Gen period no matter how the market shares fluctuate. So no so far it is still a success even for MS, maybe not the one they expected but a success never the less

And what is the iPhone's profit margin? Apple uses low quality parts to improve their bottom line. Last I checked, their phones were selling at $600 when they cost around $150 to make. 

As for your remarks about software monetization, Microsoft lost that too. Most of the people subscribed to Xbox LIVE Gold are now on PS+. I'm surprised that no one mentions this, but multiplayer games on the Xbone feel dead compared to PS4 multiplayer games. It's hard to find a match on titanfall or CoD: AW. Games also sell much better on the PlayStation this gen in every single country.

Microsoft's best bet this generation is not to try to make a profit. Their recent firesales show us that they understand this. Microsoft does not expect to make a profit this generation. Their only chance is to prevent as many 360 owners from switching over to the PS4 so that they have a chance with the next Xbox, and the only way they can do that is through deals. I'm hoping that they remove their multiplayer paywall, because paying to play online is some form of bullcrap, but I won't get my hopes up. Microsoft won't make a profit this generation.

XO multiplayer games feel dead next to PS4? What does that even mean? That makes no sense. CoD:AW just released last november and sold 4M until date. It is absolutely impossible for a game that sold so much to suddenly become inactive. You can find a match easily on both games. I simply can't even imagine who told you that nonsense.

I won't even discuss the iPhone thing. You DO know there are more things other than raw hardware right? Besides, Apple does both hardware AND software, that surely increases the R+D costs, and also they take the most out of their components, even if the specs are inferior to direct competence they end up achieving the same performance. That's some top-quality engineering right there.  The price tag is high because that's Apple policies but even then, they're not getting a $450 profit.

About profit or not, only MS can tell. Remember, the console itself may be sold at a loss or whatever but they make up for that with the games :)



Legendary_W said:
AlexJones said:
endimion said:

so wait with that line of thinking iPhone has been the most massive failure in tech devices history with every new device ever since Android entered the market and literally dwarfed it 8 to 1???

market share is meaningless apple has been proving it for close to a decade now that you can easily make monstrous amounts of money while being second by huge margin on almost every single segment of the industry. Software monetization is where it is at, so no matter the market share if MS sells more XBO so far than 360 and keep selling as much software and services than last Gen they are doing better than last Gen period no matter how the market shares fluctuate. So no so far it is still a success even for MS, maybe not the one they expected but a success never the less

And what is the iPhone's profit margin? Apple uses low quality parts to improve their bottom line. Last I checked, their phones were selling at $600 when they cost around $150 to make. 

As for your remarks about software monetization, Microsoft lost that too. Most of the people subscribed to Xbox LIVE Gold are now on PS+. I'm surprised that no one mentions this, but multiplayer games on the Xbone feel dead compared to PS4 multiplayer games. It's hard to find a match on titanfall or CoD: AW. Games also sell much better on the PlayStation this gen in every single country.

Microsoft's best bet this generation is not to try to make a profit. Their recent firesales show us that they understand this. Microsoft does not expect to make a profit this generation. Their only chance is to prevent as many 360 owners from switching over to the PS4 so that they have a chance with the next Xbox, and the only way they can do that is through deals. I'm hoping that they remove their multiplayer paywall, because paying to play online is some form of bullcrap, but I won't get my hopes up. Microsoft won't make a profit this generation.

XO multiplayer games feel dead next to PS4? What does that even mean? That makes no sense. CoD:AW just released last november and sold 4M until date. It is absolutely impossible for a game that sold so much to suddenly become inactive. You can find a match easily on both games. I simply can't even imagine who told you that nonsense.

I won't even discuss the iPhone thing. You DO know there are more things other than raw hardware right? Besides, Apple does both hardware AND software, that surely increases the R+D costs, and also they take the most out of their components, even if the specs are inferior to direct competence they end up achieving the same performance. That's some top-quality engineering right there.  The price tag is high because that's Apple policies but even then, they're not getting a $450 profit.

About profit or not, only MS can tell. Remember, the console itself may be sold at a loss or whatever but they make up for that with the games :)

It means there aren't enough people on Xbox LIVE. CoD: AW on Xbone is already starting to bleed active players. Had to wait 20 minutes for a lobby to fill up when it took just 3 seconds on the PS4.

And Microsoft did both hardware and software on the Xbone. Total R&D expenditure for the Xbone project exceeded $3 billion according to a former AMD employee who worked on the Xbone project. I doubt the PS4 R&D exceeded $1 million.

Apple does not spend much on R&D. They actually spend the least on R&D compared to other big tech companies. The myth that consumer electronics companies push tech needs to end. The manufacturers are the ones pushing tech. Everyone else just buys the tech from manufacturers. Apple "engineers" their components in the same way that you "engineer" a pizza from dominos when you're ordering from them. Manufacturers design the tools needed to make components and give their customers options, albeit very limited, as to how they want their components. The only big thing Apple does is decide how big they want their cores much like how you decide whether you want a small, medium or large pizza.

Also, the iPhone achieves the "same performance" as better speced phones because most apps only utilize 2 cores (And we have iPhone's popularity to thank for that). Since every smartphone is about the same in size and volume, using less cores allows you to make each core BIGGER. Bigger cores mean more transistors and nodes per core, meaning faster performance per core than a 4 or 8-core processor. A lot of Apple fans are making this per-core performance look like some magic Apple engineering when it's just basic computer engineering knowledge.

The point of multicore processors is not to get each individual core equal or superior to each core of a processor with less cores. It's to get superior TOTAL power, which the better spec Android phones give. Apple, however, can not engineer a 4 or 8-core processor that's decent, so they hold tech back by using only 2 cores and scream about how their processor has better per-core performance. What's disgusting is how Apple fans fall for it.



AlexJones said:

It means there aren't enough people on Xbox LIVE. CoD: AW on Xbone is already starting to bleed active players. Had to wait 20 minutes for a lobby to fill up when it took just 3 seconds on the PS4.

And Microsoft did both hardware and software on the Xbone. Total R&D expenditure for the Xbone project exceeded $3 billion according to a former AMD employee who worked on the Xbone project. I doubt the PS4 R&D exceeded $1 million.

Apple does not spend much on R&D. They actually spend the least on R&D compared to other big tech companies. The myth that consumer electronics companies push tech needs to end. The manufacturers are the ones pushing tech. Everyone else just buys the tech from manufacturers. Apple "engineers" their components in the same way that you "engineer" a pizza from dominos when you're ordering from them. Manufacturers design the tools needed to make components and give their customers options, albeit very limited, as to how they want their components. The only big thing Apple does is decide how big they want their cores much like how you decide whether you want a small, medium or large pizza.

Also, the iPhone achieves the "same performance" as better speced phones because most apps only utilize 2 cores (And we have iPhone's popularity to thank for that). Since every smartphone is about the same in size and volume, using less cores allows you to make each core BIGGER. Bigger cores mean more transistors and nodes per core, meaning faster performance per core than a 4 or 8-core processor. A lot of Apple fans are making this per-core performance look like some magic Apple engineering when it's just basic computer engineering knowledge.

The point of multicore processors is not to get each individual core equal or superior to each core of a processor with less cores. It's to get superior TOTAL power, which the better spec Android phones give. Apple, however, can not engineer a 4 or 8-core processor that's decent, so they hold tech back by using only 2 cores and scream about how their processor has better per-core performance. What's disgusting is how Apple fans fall for it.

I'm having a hard time considering that a fact. Take Dota 2 for example. Sometimes finding a match takes few seconds, others it takes a few minutes and sometimes it can take more than 10 minutes, but there are 10M active users according to Valve. Does it mean Dota is bleeding players? No. Besides, you're almost implying you have both Xbox One and PS4 and AW on both consoles. If you made this comparison at totally different times, it becomes meaningless. PS4 can totally have its days where fewer users play AW, too. I'd like you to provide sources for the R&D numbers you gave, since you seem to be so sure of what you said.

I'd like to stop talking about Apple already since that's not the issue at hand, that'd be derailing the thread. You can make your own thread if you want to discuss that and see what everyone thinks. In any case, that mustn't be so basic since if it were basic computer engineering knowledge then everyone would be taking advantage of it and the 2-core smartphones would be a standard, since it works so well for the most recognizable and popular phone out there. Also, iOS also enjoys a very strong optimization Android devices lack. iOS always worked better (when it comes to stability at least) and faster than Android in almost every other phone except for flagships like Galaxy S series or other high-end brands. In my years as an Apple user (began at mid 2011) I've had every iPhone except 3GS, and they never, ever crashed. Apps may have crashed at some points but the OS itself never did. And how can you possibly think an X company in its prime with extremely highly profitable products (from all-in-ones to cellphones) can't conduct a proper research on how to incorporate 8-core processors efficiently on their flagships phones?! I just don't get it.



Legendary_W said:
AlexJones said:

It means there aren't enough people on Xbox LIVE. CoD: AW on Xbone is already starting to bleed active players. Had to wait 20 minutes for a lobby to fill up when it took just 3 seconds on the PS4.

And Microsoft did both hardware and software on the Xbone. Total R&D expenditure for the Xbone project exceeded $3 billion according to a former AMD employee who worked on the Xbone project. I doubt the PS4 R&D exceeded $1 million.

Apple does not spend much on R&D. They actually spend the least on R&D compared to other big tech companies. The myth that consumer electronics companies push tech needs to end. The manufacturers are the ones pushing tech. Everyone else just buys the tech from manufacturers. Apple "engineers" their components in the same way that you "engineer" a pizza from dominos when you're ordering from them. Manufacturers design the tools needed to make components and give their customers options, albeit very limited, as to how they want their components. The only big thing Apple does is decide how big they want their cores much like how you decide whether you want a small, medium or large pizza.

Also, the iPhone achieves the "same performance" as better speced phones because most apps only utilize 2 cores (And we have iPhone's popularity to thank for that). Since every smartphone is about the same in size and volume, using less cores allows you to make each core BIGGER. Bigger cores mean more transistors and nodes per core, meaning faster performance per core than a 4 or 8-core processor. A lot of Apple fans are making this per-core performance look like some magic Apple engineering when it's just basic computer engineering knowledge.

The point of multicore processors is not to get each individual core equal or superior to each core of a processor with less cores. It's to get superior TOTAL power, which the better spec Android phones give. Apple, however, can not engineer a 4 or 8-core processor that's decent, so they hold tech back by using only 2 cores and scream about how their processor has better per-core performance. What's disgusting is how Apple fans fall for it.

I'm having a hard time considering that a fact. Take Dota 2 for example. Sometimes finding a match takes few seconds, others it takes a few minutes and sometimes it can take more than 10 minutes, but there are 10M active users according to Valve. Does it mean Dota is bleeding players? No. Besides, you're almost implying you have both Xbox One and PS4 and AW on both consoles. If you made this comparison at totally different times, it becomes meaningless. PS4 can totally have its days where fewer users play AW, too. I'd like you to provide sources for the R&D numbers you gave, since you seem to be so sure of what you said.

I'd like to stop talking about Apple already since that's not the issue at hand, that'd be derailing the thread. You can make your own thread if you want to discuss that and see what everyone thinks. In any case, that mustn't be so basic since if it were basic computer engineering knowledge then everyone would be taking advantage of it and the 2-core smartphones would be a standard, since it works so well for the most recognizable and popular phone out there. Also, iOS also enjoys a very strong optimization Android devices lack. iOS always worked better (when it comes to stability at least) and faster than Android in almost every other phone except for flagships like Galaxy S series or other high-end brands. In my years as an Apple user (began at mid 2011) I've had every iPhone except 3GS, and they never, ever crashed. Apps may have crashed at some points but the OS itself never did. And how can you possibly think an X company in its prime with extremely highly profitable products (from all-in-ones to cellphones) can't conduct a proper research on how to incorporate 8-core processors efficiently on their flagships phones?! I just don't get it.


Let the haters hate. Some people are so anti-Xbox/anti-Microsoft that they can't see simple facts. Xbox One is losing less money per console than the Xbox 360. Xbox One has sold more consoles than the Xbox 360 (compared to the same timeframe for the Xbox 360's release). The Xbox 360 was a success. All of these statements lead to the simple conclusion that you cannot call the Xbox One a failure. I'm not saying it's awesome. I am saying that there are no facts that support that it is a failure. Only speculation could support that.



 

IFireflyl said:

Let the haters hate. Some people are so anti-Xbox/anti-Microsoft that they can't see simple facts. Xbox One is losing less money per console than the Xbox 360. Xbox One has sold more consoles than the Xbox 360 (compared to the same timeframe for the Xbox 360's release). The Xbox 360 was a success. All of these statements lead to the simple conclusion that you cannot call the Xbox One a failure. I'm not saying it's awesome. I am saying that there are no facts that support that it is a failure. Only speculation could support that.

Yes, that is a quite important fact I didn't think of. Despite the console's bad reputation when it came out they managed to have a very strong first year (11M consoles is quite a number), and if they can play their cards right XO might be able to maintain this gap and hopefully even increase it. As of now, there is no reason of why XO can't outsell X360 (although to be fair, there is also no guarantee it will do it for sure, but it started off well).