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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Should Nintendo's next console be a microconsole?

JazzB1987 on 19 January 2015

What Nintendo should do is make a console that is cheap an upgradeable.


You know like when the N64 had the expansion pack? But isntead of that make the CPU and GPU and RAM be upgradeable.

like this:



I mean they want to make the same games work on 3DS and WiiU successor. So its kinda like the iPhone iPad thing and since I can play the same games on the newest iPhone that I can on the first one (albeit with performance difference)  this would be the perfect solution.

I mean its completely retarted that I have to buy a new case, display, buttons, mainboard,  just so I get a new CPU and GPU when wanting a faster phone. Make 2 "SKUs"  complete device or upgrade set.

Just imagine you would have to buy a new desktop PC just because your ram dies. How retarded would that be? Phones and consoles (and all the other stuff like TVs etc.) are retarded yes.



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zorg1000 on 19 January 2015
spemanig said:
zorg1000 said:

More like Wii, but that's besides the point, price+library is more important than graphics for the non-AAA blockbuster fanbase. The more profitable part comes from Nintendo being able to pump out more games by having all development being focused on one central platform and not having a console sell at a loss.

Wouldn't 3D World, Tropical Freeze, Mario Kart 8 have sold much better by being on 3DS+3DS TV instead of being confined to the small install base of Wii U? Lower budget+higher sales=more profit per game. Also games like Smash Bros would be able to release much sooner if they didn't have to make 2 seperate games simultaneously.

A Vita TV costs $99, $129 with a controller+memory card+game. A TV version of 3DS could easily retail for the same or even lower. A $99 3DS TV with a controller+a bundled game like NSMB, that allows Nintendo to pump out more games at a faster rate for 3DS would be more profitable for Nintendo than a $299 console sold at a loss with low software sales and splits development up between two seperate platforms causing software droughts for each device.


...I was talking about success, not power. The failure of what you're talking about would make the Wii U look like it was the best selling console in the world. That's how bad it would do. Struggling to reach 1m in it's first year, bad.

They would have literally only sold on the 3DS, because no one but you would have bought the 3DS TV. No one wants that product. There is no market for it. They'd have lost a shit ton of money from all the R&D they wasted launching a product destined to fail monumentally worse than the Wii U has as their "next gen" console, and that's saying a lot.

The Vita TV has no market. 60K in the US so far. 60K. It didn't fail because the Vita failed; it failed because NO ONE WANTS A MICRO CONSOLE. No one wants to play a game that looks like Mario Kart Wii again on the TV in 2015. In order for it to be profitable, people would need to buy it first. No one will buy a cheap TV plug in handheld. People except the 3DS' lack of power because, and only because, it's a handheld.

Nintendo would absolutely still have a shared library with a $299 console. There wouldn't be low software sales. Same shared library, much more powerful tech. That tech allows for exclusive benefits only the console version has while the handheld would have exclusive features that suit portables better, like Street Pass and such.

But the only place you'll ever see a Nintendo microconsole is in your dreams. Nintendo isn't making a move that unfixably bad, especially not after the Wii U.

U were clearly talking about power, since u said it would look like PS2.

Why are u so certain a $99 3DS TV would sell so bad? Some people simply don't like playing on handhelds, but they do want to play games like Pokemon, Kid Icarus, Luigi's Mansion, etc.

Vita TV has no market for multiple reasons, not just because it was a microconsole. Also just because one thing fails doesn't mean every similar idea will fail. That would be like saying the iPhone was destined for failure simply because the N-Gage failed or that iPod was destined for failure because there were a bunch of unsuccessful MP3 players in the late 90s. Just because Vita TV and other microconsole haven't hit it big yet, doesn't mean there will never be a successful microconsole.

Just like u can't seem to imagine a low-cost console that plays the same games as the handheld becoming successful, I can't see a $300 console that plays the same games as the low-cost handheld being successful.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

V-r0cK on 19 January 2015
Riverstyx said:
V-r0cK said:
Riverstyx said:
zorg1000 said:
Riverstyx said:
zorg1000 said:
Riverstyx said:
A microconsole? No. I would want a handheld with hdmi out.

It's probably in Nintendo's best interest to have two seperate devices than to have a single device act as both.

I feel Nintendo would have a much easier time supporting one console instead of two. Especially if they're going to continue to go on without third party support in the future. Also since they would only make handheld games, the games would be less graphically demanding, and games would be released at a faster rate.

The support would be the same since the console version would essentially be the same hardware as the handheld. Two seperate devices with the same hardware and software as one another.

I'm talking about just one device.

PSP/PSP Go is the ultimate device that Nintendo should copy.  It can play on the go, or dock it and play on the big screen with a Dualshock 3 controller.  One device to rule them all.

Or you could play on sony's other platform. The ps3.

I was referring to Nintendo's next console to be similar to the PSP/PSP Go.  They seem to have trouble with the home console yet dominating the handheld game market.  This could also eliminate the redunant games of Mario Kart/Smash/NSMB/3D Mario etc.. that are on both handheld and home console. 



zorg1000 on 19 January 2015
Riverstyx said:
zorg1000 said:
Riverstyx said:
zorg1000 said:
Riverstyx said:
A microconsole? No. I would want a handheld with hdmi out.

It's probably in Nintendo's best interest to have two seperate devices than to have a single device act as both.

I feel Nintendo would have a much easier time supporting one console instead of two. Especially if they're going to continue to go on without third party support in the future. Also since they would only make handheld games, the games would be less graphically demanding, and games would be released at a faster rate.

The support would be the same since the console version would essentially be the same hardware as the handheld. Two seperate devices with the same hardware and software as one another.

I'm talking about just one device.

Yes I know, I'm saying it's more beneficial to have two seperate devices than just one. Both devices will be essentially the same hardware, just in different form factors. This way they can still offer the same software output as they could by supporting one platform.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Soundwave on 19 January 2015
JazzB1987 said:

What Nintendo should do is make a console that is cheap an upgradeable.


You know like when the N64 had the expansion pack? But isntead of that make the CPU and GPU and RAM be upgradeable.

like this:



I mean they want to make the same games work on 3DS and WiiU successor. So its kinda like the iPhone iPad thing and since I can play the same games on the newest iPhone that I can on the first one (albeit with performance difference)  this would be the perfect solution.

I mean its completely retarted that I have to buy a new case, display, buttons, mainboard,  just so I get a new CPU and GPU when wanting a faster phone. Make 2 "SKUs"  complete device or upgrade set.

Just imagine you would have to buy a new desktop PC just because your ram dies. How retarded would that be? Phones and consoles (and all the other stuff like TVs etc.) are retarded yes.


Well technically if the console is small enough and power efficient enough what they *could* do is open up the doors to allowing people to buy 2 consoles and link them together for double the horsepower through a high speed link port. 

Wouldn't be that different from what people do on PCs where they have dual GPUs for far more horsepower, only this would be a lot smaller, cheaper, and easier (just plug a cable between the two and voila). 

So if you had say a 600-700 GFLOP "microconsole" using mobile parts that runs at about 12-14 watts, linking two of them would get you to 1.2TFLOP-1.4 TFLOPS at only 24-28 watts. That's some serious horsepower. 

I doubt Nintendo would do that, but it is one of those things that becomes plausible when you are using mobile components. 



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Teriol on 19 January 2015

no thanks, i prefer a megaconsole :)



34 years playing games.

 

Soundwave on 19 January 2015
Teriol said:
no thanks, i prefer a megaconsole :)


Nintendo hasn't made one of those in 14 years now and I don't think that is going to change now. 

To compete in the 'megaconsole' sweepstakes making a system just marginally better than the PS4 wouldn't cut it because the PS4/X1 would have several year headstarts and a library of hundreds of games making Nintendo's offering a predictable third rung. The PS2 destroyed the GameCube largely on the back of a 20 million unit headstart, the PS4 would be looking at more like a 40+ million unit headstart. Game over before the game even begins. 

They'd have to make a PS5 (as in FIVE) level console before the two others ... something I don't think Nintendo has the gumption to do. The budgets on the games would be massive and their dev teams would have to quickly adjust once again to a generational leap forward. 

From a personal POV I'd like a megaconsole too, but I just don't see today's Nintendo going sniffing anywhere close to that. 



Jizz_Beard_thePirate on 19 January 2015
zorg1000 said:
Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:

It doesn't matter if the console is more powerful than the wiiU cause the games will be avaliable on the handheld. It is as simple as that. There is no reason for anyone to pay twice the amount for two different hardware if both plays the exact same games, just one being able to play the games on the TV. That is why the Vita failed because a lot of its games can be found else where. And since the handheld has always been popular on Nintendo's side, majority will go for the handheld instead of the console

And if it didn't work with other companies, it wont work for Nintendo for the very same reason.

And what do you mean the Vita sold 400k in 2.5 months vs Vita TV 100k in the same time frame? Just look at the december NPD for example. Last december, the Vita sold 130k and Vita TV sold 20k... That will never result in a number that you gave for the Micro-console vs Handheld if you compare it like that... And the sales of the Vita TV is laughable at best considering its the holidays. And considering it sold 40k in October and November combined, the Vita TV sold 60k in NA LTD...

And the reason why people will choose the handheld is because in the History of Nintendo platforms, their handheld has always sold better than the consoles in the exact same generation. And when they choose the handheld, they wont bother with the micro-console at all where as if they make a standard console, the handheld owners might consider it a lot higher since it will give them exclusive games that cant be played on the handheld. Also nope, if the wiiU is the same price as the 3ds and has the exact same library, there is no reason for anyone to get the wiiU because it will have the exact same hardware as the 3ds if we are going my your logic. No one will pay almost twice the amount for two pieces of hardware that does virtually the samething

Who said u had to buy both devices, if u want to play on the go, get the handheld, if u want to play at home, get the console. Vita failed for a ton of reasons, expensive handheld, expensive memory cards, lack of the big games that made PSP a success, also a big part of PSP success was due to being a portable multimedia device which was a big deal back in 2005-2008, now it's not such a huge deal due to a plethora of portable multimedia devices on the market, horrible advertising, lack of support outside of Niche Japanese titles and indies.

I hate that train of thought, it didn't work for them so it can't work for anyone. By that logic, most things in life would be seen as impossible.

I figured it made more sense to compare the devices in the same time frame. But that Vita number for Dec is laughable as well, which supports my argument, Vita is a failure, a device that plays Vita games on a TV was gauranteed to be a failure as well. If Vita games can't sell the Vita, than why would Vita games sell the Vita TV?

NES outsold Game & Watch 1.5:1, SNES slightly outsold Gameboy in the 4th generation, Gameboy outsold N64 2:1 in the 5th generation, GBA outsold GC nearly 4:1, DS outsold Wii 1.5:1. Overall sales of Nintendo consoles thru Wii is around 270 million, handheld sales thru DS are around 400 million. On average handhelds have outsold consoles 1.5:1, doesn't my 50 -65m handheld, 30-35 million console expamle fall around that ratio?

You do realize that a lot of console owners own the handheld right? And there is a lot of overlap between who buys a wiiU and who buy both the wiiU and 3ds? If Nintendo does that mini-console nonsense, they will lose that market for sure. It really isn't hard to see why this is a bad idea. The reason why Vita failed isn't cause it was expensive, the reason why it failed was due to the fact that its price did not justify the cost of purchase due to a large lack of exclusives and on a mini-console it never does.

And no, the reason why it doesn't work for companies and it won't work for Nintendo is cause no one wants it regardless of who makes them and that is proven by the sales of other mini-consoles. There is no reason to get the mini-console if you can just as easily get the handheld which is compatible with all the games cause the handheld has a touchscreen which the miniconsole will not have. And also the fact that its portable as well as many other things.

And yes, the Vita's sales is also laughable but the point is that, even though those sales are laughable, the difference between the Vita TV and the Vita is even greater.

And not really cause times have changed... You really can't use old Handheld vs Console data from a time where Nintendo was dominanent in the console market cause they aren't even close anymore. Sure, they were with the wii but that was the exception. And a Micro-console does not follow the same sorta sales as a standard console. A Micro-console always has significantly less sales than a normal console because it loses that overlap of people buying both systems. I am pretty sure virtually everyone that owns a Nintendo console also owns their handheld since the n64 days and doing it like your idea will guarantee that they lose that market



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

Soundwave on 19 January 2015

No one's really done a microconsole properly though. Only Sony has tried and really all they did was throw the Vita chipset (a very unpopular system) into a small box and called it a day.

Nintendo could do considerably more with the concept and it would have several advantages.

- It would be fairly cheap, probably $200 to start with and scale down in cost very quickly, allowing Nintendo to just focus on selling games and Amiibos. Win for Nintendo and consumers.

- If they use the same processor as the handheld it saves Nintendo a ton of money on R&D costs making the hardware profitable basically overnight. Win for Nintendo.

- Being so small and without a disc drive would make it whisper quiet ... a small thing, but seeing as how the Wii U sounds like a wheezing fat kid trying to get up a flight of stairs sometimes, it would be nice to go back to quiet consoles (N64, SNES, etc.). And it would be nice to be able to put your console in your pocket (literally) if you need to take it to a friends house.

- Microconsoles to date have been fairly underpowered, most don't even come close to PS3 in performance, but that's changing now. The new Tegra chip has PS3/360 style performance, but 2016 Nintendo could have something comparable to the Wii U for the handheld and then they could put 2-3x the CPU/GPU cores for the consoles variant. The result would be something considerably more powerful than a Wii U. Plenty of horsepower for Nintendo.

- Having ALL Nintendo software in one place would ensure far fewer droughts and open up Nintendo's dev teams to make more original IP since they wouldn't have to make multiple versions of each IP (2x Mario 3D, 2x Mario 2D, 2x Smash Bros, 2x Mario Kart, etc.) for two separate platforms.

Sure some people will gripe about it ... then Nintendo will show Mario Galaxy 3 and Monster Hunter 5 running at 1080p on the system with somehwhat better than Wii U graphics, being able to play on the road or at home seamlessly, and most Nintendo fans will run to pre-order one.



Teriol on 19 January 2015
Soundwave said:
Teriol said:
no thanks, i prefer a megaconsole :)


Nintendo hasn't made one of those in 14 years now and I don't think that is going to change now. 

To compete in the 'megaconsole' sweepstakes making a system just marginally better than the PS4 wouldn't cut it because the PS4/X1 would have several year headstarts and a library of hundreds of games making Nintendo's offering a predictable third rung. The PS2 destroyed the GameCube largely on the back of a 20 million unit headstart, the PS4 would be looking at more like a 40+ million unit headstart. Game over before the game even begins. 

They'd have to make a PS5 (as in FIVE) level console before the two others ... something I don't think Nintendo has the gumption to do. The budgets on the games would be massive and their dev teams would have to quickly adjust once again to a generational leap forward. 

From a personal POV I'd like a megaconsole too, but I just don't see today's Nintendo going sniffing anywhere close to that. 

soundwave... sorry i can't take you serious, because your biased on everything nintendo related so... go to another place ;)



34 years playing games.