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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Anyone else think Bioshock is over-rated?

Onyxmeth said:
I'm probably the last person that would ever love an FPS, but Bioshock delivered big time. It's narrative was just so engrossing. It's by far one of the greatest stories ever told in gaming history. I can't complain about the gameplay, it was better than most first person shooters i've ever played.

 Wow...if you actually believe that, you need to get out there and play some more story-driven games.

Don't get me wrong, Bioshock started decently, with Andrew Ryan and his vision of evading the governments of the world, but it basically went downhill from there until the story was nothing more than a typical Hollywood-like convoluted mess of "OH NOES! YOU WERE ROOTING FOR THE WRONG SIDE!!!"

If anyone wants to argue this, start with answering the following question: why was Bioshock's story so great? What did it have to SAY? Where were the metaphors and comparisons to our own society? You start with a man with a vision of living life by his own means, but as it so happens, trying to live by your own means only results in downfall and destruction. So the moral of the story is...conform. Huh?

Deus Ex had a storyline which involved switching sides to join a "terrorist" organization to stop a corrupt UN from spreading a deadly plague across the world, during which you had to decide whether or not you wanted to do a number of things, including kill a fellow agent to save the "terrorist" leader or save any number of your friends from death. In the end, you had to choose one of three ways to conclude the story: 1. slay the madman trying to merge with an AI which will in essence make him a god, 2. merge with the AI yourself and become a god, 3. Destroy not only the madman and the AI, but the entire information network of the globe, sending the earth back into the dark ages.

Deus Ex drew into question the power of governments, pointing out the fact that the average worker is taxed more than the corporations they work for. It spoke directly to how corruption can hide behind alleged noble ideals and it did so with actual interaction on the part of the lead character, allowing you to develop relationships with the characters around you in the process (not keeping them behind a glass window so you could never actually see them face to face).

Bioshock was a completely linear walk from one end of the story to the other, with zero interaction on the part of the player and zero decisions beyond saving the little sisters or snuffing them.

Seriously, if people think Bioshock's story was "one of the best in gaming ever" then there is no greater example of how far our standards have fallen. The narrative did a good job with the atmosphere, but the story had zero follow through, and that's doubly true of the one of two endings where you're either love personified or the next Hitler.



"I mean, c'mon, Viva Pinata, a game with massive marketing, didn't sell worth a damn to the "sophisticated" 360 audience, despite near-universal praise--is that a sign that 360 owners are a bunch of casual ignoramuses that can't get their heads around a 'gardening' sim? Of course not. So let's please stop trying to micro-analyze one game out of hundreds and using it as the poster child for why good, non-1st party, games can't sell on Wii. (Everyone frequenting this site knows this is nonsense, and yet some of you just can't let it go because it's the only scab you have left to pick at after all your other "Wii will phail1!!1" straw men arguments have been put to the torch.)" - exindguy on Boom Blocks

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Smash_Brother said:

Seriously, if people think Bioshock's story was "one of the best ever" then there is no greater example of how far our standards have fallen. The narrative did a good job with the atmosphere, but the story had zero follow through, and that's doubly true of the one of two endings where you're either love personified or the next Hitler.


The same group of gamers that would tout its story as "one of the best ever" are also among the ones who would do the same for Halo.

Ponder that for a moment and enlightenment shall follow.



Smash_Brother said:
Onyxmeth said:
I'm probably the last person that would ever love an FPS, but Bioshock delivered big time. It's narrative was just so engrossing. It's by far one of the greatest stories ever told in gaming history. I can't complain about the gameplay, it was better than most first person shooters i've ever played.

Wow...if you actually believe that, you need to get out there and play some more story-driven games.

Don't get me wrong, Bioshock started decently, with Andrew Ryan and his vision of evading the governments of the world, but it basically went downhill from there until the story was nothing more than a typical Hollywood-like convoluted mess of "OH NOES! YOU WERE ROOTING FOR THE WRONG SIDE!!!"

If anyone wants to argue this, start with answering the following question: why was Bioshock's story so great? You have a city under the ocean where all hell broke loose because genetic mutation became commonplace. That's nice.

Deus Ex had a storyline which involved switching sides to join a "terrorist" organization to stop a corrupt UN from spreading a deadly plague across the world, during which you had to decide whether or not you wanted to do a number of things, including kill a fellow agent to save the "terrorist" leader save any number of your friends from death. In the end, you had to choose one of three ways to conclude the story: 1. slay the madman trying to merge with an AI which will in essence make him a god, 2. merge with the AI yourself and become a god, 3. Destroy not only the madman and the AI, but the entire information network of the globe, sending the earth back into the dark ages.

Seriously, if people think Bioshock's story was "one of the best ever", then there is no greater example of how far our standards have fallen.


First off, if you really think that what made Bioshock great was a twist on the end where you were working for the enemy (fuck spoilers, it's long enough I don't care) then you missed the point of the game. Go back and play it again or read about it.

I think one scene in particular made the game great: Andrew Ryan's death scene. It's not the story that's fantastic, it's how they tell it.

eh, I was going to go into depth, but so many other people have done better than I can. Just search for Bioshock's storytelling, there's an awesome article somewhere on Ryan's death scene and control.

-edit-

And just for Words of Wisdom (looky there-- I did it right that time) other than some fun multiplayer, I think Halo is pretty much garbage. 



Smash_Brother said:
Onyxmeth said:
I'm probably the last person that would ever love an FPS, but Bioshock delivered big time. It's narrative was just so engrossing. It's by far one of the greatest stories ever told in gaming history. I can't complain about the gameplay, it was better than most first person shooters i've ever played.

Wow...if you actually believe that, you need to get out there and play some more story-driven games.

Don't get me wrong, Bioshock started decently, with Andrew Ryan and his vision of evading the governments of the world, but it basically went downhill from there until the story was nothing more than a typical Hollywood-like convoluted mess of "OH NOES! YOU WERE ROOTING FOR THE WRONG SIDE!!!"

If anyone wants to argue this, start with answering the following question: why was Bioshock's story so great? You have a city under the ocean where all hell broke loose because genetic mutation became commonplace. That's nice.

Deus Ex had a storyline which involved switching sides to join a "terrorist" organization to stop a corrupt UN from spreading a deadly plague across the world, during which you had to decide whether or not you wanted to do a number of things, including kill a fellow agent to save the "terrorist" leader save any number of your friends from death. In the end, you had to choose one of three ways to conclude the story: 1. slay the madman trying to merge with an AI which will in essence make him a god, 2. merge with the AI yourself and become a god, 3. Destroy not only the madman and the AI, but the entire information network of the globe, sending the earth back into the dark ages.

Seriously, if people think Bioshock's story was "one of the best ever", then there is no greater example of how far our standards have fallen.

You tell me I'm crazy and then name one game that has a better story, which I actually agree with you. So what's your point? Do you have others also or is Deus Ex the only one? I did say "one of the best", not "the best".

Secondly, videogame stories are horrific judging directly to other mediums like literature and films. I'm not actually sitting here thinking Bioshock is better than The Squid and the Whale, just that it's better than the crap most other games consider a narrative. Bioshock has a heavy advantage over many story driven games from the past, because the extra power of today's 360 and PCs allowed it to tell it's story better. The voice acting was terrific, the confrontations with adversaries were realistic and intimidating, and the themes, while being good for only VG standards were among the best.  

 



Tag: Became a freaking mod and a complete douche, coincidentally, at the same time.



Qly said:
XGamer0611 said:
Overrated? Are you kidding me? Bioshock is one of the greatest games to be released this generation. To this day it may be the best 360 game out there. I love Bioshock it's one of the few purchases I've made with no regrets.

Wow.. speak about clouded fanboy judging. while I agree that it is a great game, calling it "one of the greatest games to be released this generation", specially whe this generation is still in its young age seems a bit... nostradamee

Unless of course you meant "one of the greatest games released in this generation SO FAR" in which case I sincerely apoogize and totally agree with ya.

Peace.


Yes, I meant so far.



Now Playing: Crysis 2

Last Finished: BulletStorm

Online IDs: PSN: computermaximus, XBL: computermaximus

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Hate to spoil the story for anyone but the dog being killed was really really sad especially when you have your significant other next to you and you have a little dog. I felt the gameplay was excellent as it made the game fun to play and allowed me to really just focus on the great story.



Smash_Brothers hit the nail on the head. I was expecting so much more from Bioshock. Instead, I got bored with it halfway through. I felt like I was playing Doom 3 with a slightly more interesting story and with plasmids.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the game was bad, but it was far from being great.



Onyxmeth said:

Secondly, videogame stories are horrific judging directly to other mediums like literature and films. I'm not actually sitting here thinking Bioshock is better than The Squid and the Whale, just that it's better than the crap most other games consider a narrative. Bioshock has a heavy advantage over many story driven games from the past, because the extra power of today's 360 and PCs allowed it to tell it's story better. The voice acting was terrific, the confrontations with adversaries were realistic and intimidating, and the themes, while being good for only VG standards were among the best.  

 


 I can agree that it's better than what we're used to, but the game just had such a weak finish that it was saddening.

The scene with Andrew Ryan was easily the best in the game, but I once again have to cite the fact that we weren't playing the scene, we watched it like a movie. In fact, we watched the whole game like a movie.

And here's why that kills me: the same people who made System Shock also made Deus Ex and Bioshock. I've seen what these people are capable of and as a result I can see where Bioshock was more than likely stripped down so it would be more easily swallowed by the console market.

And that really, REALLY sucks, and this is why I hate it when I see people praising it for the story when the story was only a shadow of what it could've been. There's no reason to play as a character who is a voiceless, nameless drone in a linear start-to-finish storyline when the team behind it was so clearly capable of creating an immersive, empowering story with a likable protagonist for the player to control.



"I mean, c'mon, Viva Pinata, a game with massive marketing, didn't sell worth a damn to the "sophisticated" 360 audience, despite near-universal praise--is that a sign that 360 owners are a bunch of casual ignoramuses that can't get their heads around a 'gardening' sim? Of course not. So let's please stop trying to micro-analyze one game out of hundreds and using it as the poster child for why good, non-1st party, games can't sell on Wii. (Everyone frequenting this site knows this is nonsense, and yet some of you just can't let it go because it's the only scab you have left to pick at after all your other "Wii will phail1!!1" straw men arguments have been put to the torch.)" - exindguy on Boom Blocks

Smash_Brother said:


If anyone wants to argue this, start with answering the following question: why was Bioshock's story so great? What did it have to SAY? Where were the metaphors and comparisons to our own society? You start with a man with a vision of living life by his own means, but as it so happens, trying to live by your own means only results in downfall and destruction. So the moral of the story is...conform. Huh?

...

Seriously, if people think Bioshock's story was "one of the best in gaming ever" then there is no greater example of how far our standards have fallen. The narrative did a good job with the atmosphere, but the story had zero follow through, and that's doubly true of the one of two endings where you're either love personified or the next Hitler.


 Also forgot to add-- go back and play some of the games that supposedly have a great story.  Even great games like FFVI acclaimed by nearly all that played as the best FF has a pretty mediocre story.  The thing that made its story good wasn't the actual story, it was the characters and their changes.



twesterm said:

eh, I was going to go into depth, but so many other people have done better than I can. Just search for Bioshock's storytelling, there's an awesome article somewhere on Ryan's death scene and control.


 But that's just the problem: the game started acting like it had something to say about control and free will and then...you have the mind control removed from your head by going on a fedex quest! It wasn't a struggle for man to fight his own programming, you just needed some REVERSE programming! 

 

twesterm said:

 Also forgot to add-- go back and play some of the games that supposedly have a great story.  Even great games like FFVI acclaimed by nearly all that played as the best FF has a pretty mediocre story.  The thing that made its story good wasn't the actual story, it was the characters and their changes.


 I've never played FFVII and I never will. I'm primarily talking about Deus Ex, which was both made by the same team and falls in the same genre, making it an excellent milestone for comparison.



"I mean, c'mon, Viva Pinata, a game with massive marketing, didn't sell worth a damn to the "sophisticated" 360 audience, despite near-universal praise--is that a sign that 360 owners are a bunch of casual ignoramuses that can't get their heads around a 'gardening' sim? Of course not. So let's please stop trying to micro-analyze one game out of hundreds and using it as the poster child for why good, non-1st party, games can't sell on Wii. (Everyone frequenting this site knows this is nonsense, and yet some of you just can't let it go because it's the only scab you have left to pick at after all your other "Wii will phail1!!1" straw men arguments have been put to the torch.)" - exindguy on Boom Blocks