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Forums - Politics Discussion - If Greece was kicked out of the EU, would that save the dying Euro?

generic-user-1 said:

blackouts? in germany? because of EE? thats new... and the energie prices in europe were allways high, we dont have much gas, we dont have so much coal thats not under citys.     

 

do you have numbers from other countrys to compare?

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/9205#more

"Feed-in reduction was initiated 197 times during the winter season 2011/12 compared to 39 times the previous year. In 184 cases wind power caused high feed-in from distribution grids into the transmission grids. 5 cases were remarkable (over 1GW) and affected the entire grid."

It was bound to happen with the growth of the wind generation in the energy balance + check transport routes:

Building more PSHs might help with this, but afaik nothing of this is in plans in Germany.

UPD. From the article above:

"The main part of the German wind power is installed in the northern part of the country while the main part of the PV capacity is installed in Bavaria. The nuclear moratorium has created the most serious supply problems in the southern part of Germany. This observation suggests additional PV generation to relieve the supply problems."

By now you could easily write off Germany from the "nuclear club", technologically and resourse-wise rebuilding this will cost a lot.

 

By numbers you mean kW per hour cost for end-user, households and enterprise?



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mai said:
generic-user-1 said:

blackouts? in germany? because of EE? thats new... and the energie prices in europe were allways high, we dont have much gas, we dont have so much coal thats not under citys.     

 

do you have numbers from other countrys to compare?

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/9205#more

"Feed-in reduction was initiated 197 times during the winter season 2011/12 compared to 39 times the previous year. In 184 cases wind power caused high feed-in from distribution grids into the transmission grids. 5 cases were remarkable (over 1GW) and affected the entire grid."

It was bound to happen with the growth of the wind generation in the energy balance + check transport routes:

Building more PSHs might help with this, but afaik nothing of this is in plans in Germany.

UPD. From the article above:

"The main part of the German wind power is installed in the northern part of the country while the main part of the PV capacity is installed in Bavaria. The nuclear moratorium has created the most serious supply problems in the southern part of Germany. This observation suggests additional PV generation to relieve the supply problems."

By now you could easily write off Germany from the "nuclear club", technologically and resourse-wise rebuilding this will cost a lot.

 

By numbers you mean kW per hour cost for end-user, households and enterprise?



those were no blackouts... and by numbers i mean energiepoors. i know how much i pay and how much i payed 5 years ago... last year was the first year i had to pay less and this year stayed the same, next year will be a bit less.

generic-user-1 said:

those were no blackouts... and by numbers i mean energiepoors. i know how much i pay and how much i payed 5 years ago... last year was the first year i had to pay less and this year stayed the same, next year will be a bit less.

Poor wording on my part, yes, not a blackout -- emergency redispatch, which is one tiny step from blackout. From 39 to 197 emergencies on yoy basis is quite a feat. Why you were able to avoid blackouts? Because you have dispatchable capacities, in your case -- natgas. As shown on the chart below in Feb 2012 natgas was the main source that covered demand peaks during the month, while the wind -- sometimes you have it, sometimes you don't :D So basically for every installed kW of wind energy you need to reserve 1 kW of natgas capacities. That's "cheap" indeed.


Interesting that such a growth in emergencies happened next winter after shutting down a record amount of nuclear reactor capacities.

As for the price for the end-user, I'm to lazy to check actual numbers right now, but I severely doubt anyone is going to pay less in the foreseen future, that's true for resource-rich countries, even more so for Germany as it's not resource-rich and alternative energy is pricey. It could seem like it is not as long as the difference between the price for the producer and the user is paid by the government. I suggest to check actual price of alternatives without subventions.



mai said:

generic-user-1 said:

those were no blackouts... and by numbers i mean energiepoors. i know how much i pay and how much i payed 5 years ago... last year was the first year i had to pay less and this year stayed the same, next year will be a bit less.

Poor wording on my part, yes, not a blackout -- emergency redispatch, which is one tiny step from blackout. From 39 to 197 emergencies on yoy basis is quite a feat. Why you were able to avoid blackouts? Because you have dispatchable capacities, in your case -- natgas. As shown on the chart below in Feb 2012 natgas was the main source that covered demand peaks during the month, while the wind -- sometimes you have it, sometimes you don't :D So basically for every installed kW of wind energy you need to reserve 1 kW of natgas capacities. That's "cheap" indeed.


Interesting that such a growth in emergencies happened next winter after shutting down a record amount of nuclear reactor capacities.

As for the price for the end-user, I'm to lazy to check actual numbers right now, but I severely doubt anyone is going to pay less in the foreseen future, that's true for resource-rich countries, even more so for Germany as it's not resource-rich and alternative energy is pricey. It could seem like it is not as long as the difference between the price for the producer and the user is paid by the government. I suggest to check actual price of alternatives without subventions.



there are no state subventions for alternative energies in germany we pay it all with our energie bill.