SamuelRSmith said: generic-user-1 said: he can work in the EU without visa or anything, and its not just germany that needs highly skilled workers, all of northern europe needs well educated people, and its much closer to home, and the chances that he could get back to greece when the economy is turning arent that low, european companys will need a lot of staff in southern europe when the economy turns. You do realise that we've been waiting for the economy to "turn" for almost 7 years now, and a lot of economic indicators are pointing toward a new global recession coming up within the next couple of years? To steal a quote: there will be no economic recovery, prepare yourself accordingly. Japan's been waiting for their economy to "turn" for 20 odd years, so don't hold your breath. But, yeah, go anywhere where you can find work and build savings (another reason to come to SE Asia, taxes so low anybody can easily build savings). If you can do it being "closer to home" sure. Just don't bank on that factor being of any benefit.

A lyric digression from thread topic. Sometime in 2008 in the wake of a global economic crisis (or rather when it was publically aknowledged) or slightly before that, in 2007, a bunch of authors of various levels of sanity, who colloquially could be desribed as "crisis theorists", became well-known to the public. Some of them provided, as it turned out, a good outlook at what is waiting us in the future. LaRouche is a good example of such author, and unlike others rather substantial one despite his controversy.

We've got quite of few of them over here too, one of them proved to be rather insightful and eventually well-known. I remember talking to him in the winter of 2008-2009 iirc on the matter of Ukraine and his descision was rather pessimistic -- run while you can -- no options, no choice, no nothing, utter collapse, war. He vanished into obsucity since then and never left any kind of book or smth, so his "followers" have compiled a couple of editions (~500 pages total) of his posts on a few dozens of topics ranging from the state of mortgages loans in the States to world geopolitics. Surely he was heavily critisized: "You're dramatazing, it can't be that bad!" -- especially after 2010 when quite a few of his predicitions fell flat. But even though he was constantly wrong in terms of dates, general outline of the few possible scenarios seem intact and evolve exactly in the described succession, you just need to take into account a series of QEs that has postponed the effects for smth like 6 years -- and here we go, back to the early 2008. He's usually referred by his nickname, Avanturist.

All in all the point is... people in general are very much behind the events and grossly underestimate the effects of the crisis. There's indeed could be quite literally no recovery, effectively no recovery, not in our lifetimes, at least not in the time of economic activity of current generation. The sooner general public will transit from denial phase to acceptance -- the better. Yet it's good for the Greece it got warm climate and you could live from smth you grow on the land, if you happen to have one.

mai said: generic-user-1 said: solar and windenergie work realy fine. germany hs 20%, other states have even higher rates(not not so muc heavy industrie, so the consumption is a bit different). As I often repeat this, it works "really fine" as long as there's substantial amount of readily available and cheap (in terms of EROEI) energy, which it leeches onto. We have passed traditional peak oil somewhere in 2000s, the growth past that time has been based upon hard to excavate and pricey oils like shale, artic, tar sands etc., which will likely to peak very soon as well given current price. It's extremely unrelaistic if not naive to expect alternative energy to be a good replacement for that. Just as illustration -- Sigmar Gabriel: "Wir stehen knapp vor dem Scheitern der Energiewende". Make yourself and the world a favour -- if you see a green energy sectarian or whoever lobbies for that crap -- punch him in the head until he gets smarter and abandons his illusions.

EE work realy fine, and they can stand totaly alone if you have enough of em, there is no big problem with having 100% EE, you can harvest the energie you need on rainy windless days on the other days, the natural gas infrastructur is big enough as buffer, and you can feed in windgas or biogas easyly. the Energiewende has no technical problems, it has political problems, because southern "germans" are stupid egoist who dont want to have the grid near their towns or windenergie in their states.

Schadenfreude against the German austerity scolds who must be positively seething right now. The economic facts and the people's voice is clear: your way has failed. Time for Europe to move on from the belt-tightening fad.

This will be interesting to watch.

Mr Khan said: Schadenfreude against the German austerity scolds who must be positively seething right now. The economic facts and the people's voice is clear: your way has failed. Time for Europe to move on from the belt-tightening fad. This will be interesting to watch.

the most important thing now is higher taxes and a working taxestionsystem, and stop the starvation of old greeks.

The Euro was a flawed disaster to begin with I doubt Greece leaving would end all of the problems tbh, it'll certainly impact me and those of us currently working in the financial sector in the immediate future though.

Wyrdness said: The Euro was a flawed disaster to begin with I doubt Greece leaving would end all of the problems tbh, it'll certainly impact me and those of us currently working in the financial sector in the immediate future though.

The only flaw was the political control over the central bank. If Draghi had carte blanche to do what needed to be done, as Ben Bernanke/Janet Yellen had, much of the mess could have been averted; easy money in the short term should have been matched by schemes to close deficits in the medium term, which is similar to what happened in the US, albeit not planned by anyone (in terms of deficit closing because of the chaotic Sequestration policy due to government gridlock).

Soft money policies can't solve all the problems, but we've seen in Europe how very real the human costs are of a "shock therapy" style approach to structural reform and state debt. Although EU should have been paying closer attention to Russia in the 90s to know that it was going to be a terrible idea in the first place.

OdinHades said: The Euro is dying since it was introduced, yet somehow it is still around. Kinda like consoles. And PCs. And Nintendo...

epic meme

P.i.g.s. ALL SHOULD LEAVE the euro.

Mr Khan said: Wyrdness said: The Euro was a flawed disaster to begin with I doubt Greece leaving would end all of the problems tbh, it'll certainly impact me and those of us currently working in the financial sector in the immediate future though. The only flaw was the political control over the central bank. If Draghi had carte blanche to do what needed to be done, as Ben Bernanke/Janet Yellen had, much of the mess could have been averted; easy money in the short term should have been matched by schemes to close deficits in the medium term, which is similar to what happened in the US, albeit not planned by anyone (in terms of deficit closing because of the chaotic Sequestration policy due to government gridlock). Soft money policies can't solve all the problems, but we've seen in Europe how very real the human costs are of a "shock therapy" style approach to structural reform and state debt. Although EU should have been paying closer attention to Russia in the 90s to know that it was going to be a terrible idea in the first place.

they should have never let draghi take over the ecb, hes an idiot, he lifes in a bubble. he is trying things that never worked. QE was never a good idea, it didnt worked in japan and it didnt worked in the usa and it will not work in europe. QE just blow up bubbles till they burst. but his buddies at the banks wanted MOAR cheap money so he delivered MOAR money... he could have handed out money directly to every citizen, or invest in real things with fresh ecb money, that wouldnt have broken any laws, QE does.

generic-user-1 said: Mr Khan said: Wyrdness said: The Euro was a flawed disaster to begin with I doubt Greece leaving would end all of the problems tbh, it'll certainly impact me and those of us currently working in the financial sector in the immediate future though. The only flaw was the political control over the central bank. If Draghi had carte blanche to do what needed to be done, as Ben Bernanke/Janet Yellen had, much of the mess could have been averted; easy money in the short term should have been matched by schemes to close deficits in the medium term, which is similar to what happened in the US, albeit not planned by anyone (in terms of deficit closing because of the chaotic Sequestration policy due to government gridlock). Soft money policies can't solve all the problems, but we've seen in Europe how very real the human costs are of a "shock therapy" style approach to structural reform and state debt. Although EU should have been paying closer attention to Russia in the 90s to know that it was going to be a terrible idea in the first place. they should have never let draghi take over the ecb, hes an idiot, he lifes in a bubble. he is trying things that never worked. QE was never a good idea, it didnt worked in japan and it didnt worked in the usa and it will not work in europe. QE just blow up bubbles till they burst. but his buddies at the banks wanted MOAR cheap money so he delivered MOAR money... he could have handed out money directly to every citizen, or invest in real things with fresh ecb money, that wouldnt have broken any laws, QE does.

QE isn't a magic bullet, but it does soften the blow. What *works* is demand-spurring infrastructure projects and other forms of wise government spending, but often there is not the will to increase spending in an economic downturn. Being removed from politics, banks are free to apply their tools, and QE at least encourages business spending (because punting the interest rates means there's much less incentive for businesses to save), and cheap credit saves at least some distressed businesses. Now this creates the problems of "zombie firms", but in light of a lack of government will to do what is right for its people, QE can provide some help in terms of mitigating the human costs of an economic collapse.