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Forums - Gaming Discussion - What lessons did Nintendo learn this gen you think?

RolStoppable said:
curl-6 said:

1. Wii U and 3DS are withered technology.

2. Appealing to a Western audience could save them from  being forced to go third party.

3. Xbox One's sales are fine, much better than Wii U's. Once you remove the dudebros, there isn't enough of an audience left for a home console to do better than Gamecube numbers.

1. That's a clear demonstration that you don't know what that means.

2. Apparently you don't realize that the audience you speak of wants Nintendo to go third party.

3. Here you demonstrate your limited thinking. The reason why the dudebros are the lifeblood is because it's almost exclusively them who are catered to. And the reason why the GC and Wii U have been selling so low is because Nintendo is only making the games they want to make, so they aren't able to reach beyond Nintendo fanboys. The Wii U, just like the GC, leaves many people disinterested or even appalled, so they aren't buying.

Wii U and 3DS, for the most part, used established, outdated, and relatively inexpensive internal components. CPU, GPU, RAM, all withered tech. The extra costs came from the "lateral thinking" side of the equation; the tablet, for instance.

What would you suggest they do? You talk about "reaching beyond the Nintendo fanboys", but to who else would you have them reach, if not the dudebros? Children and the Wii crowd have moved on to smartphones. 



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curl-6 said:
RolStoppable said:
curl-6 said:

1. Wii U and 3DS are withered technology.

2. Appealing to a Western audience could save them from  being forced to go third party.

3. Xbox One's sales are fine, much better than Wii U's. Once you remove the dudebros, there isn't enough of an audience left for a home console to do better than Gamecube numbers.

1. That's a clear demonstration that you don't know what that means.

2. Apparently you don't realize that the audience you speak of wants Nintendo to go third party.

3. Here you demonstrate your limited thinking. The reason why the dudebros are the lifeblood is because it's almost exclusively them who are catered to. And the reason why the GC and Wii U have been selling so low is because Nintendo is only making the games they want to make, so they aren't able to reach beyond Nintendo fanboys. The Wii U, just like the GC, leaves many people disinterested or even appalled, so they aren't buying.

Wii U and 3DS, for the most part, used established, outdated, and relatively inexpensive internal components. CPU, GPU, RAM, all withered tech. The extra costs came from the "lateral thinking" side of the equation; the tablet, for instance.

What would you suggest they do? You talk about "reaching beyond the Nintendo fanboys", but to who else would you have them reach, if not the dudebros? Children and the Wii crowd have moved on to smartphones. 

Cats and dogs are a large untapped market for Nintendo ;)

Everyone's making games for humans, but what about your pets? 



Make Commercials where your target audience is. I Sit on my PC for a good couple of hours while my Sister has Disney Chanel on and don't see any commercials for the 3DS or Wii U meanwhile AMC has a 3DS commercial in the Walking Dead Half Season premier :/



the_dengle said:
Soundwave said:

Gotta buy them all.  

I gave amiibo a fair shake and I have decided that I don't like them. Haven't bought any. Don't want any. Disappointed that I may eventually feel the need to buy one in order to access actual, significant in-game content like the Spinner in Hyrule Warriors.

I'm half-ashamed to say that i would buy them all (or at least the full smash set) even though i barely actually used the ones i got. They're pretty cool just to have around. Kirby sits on my desk even though i've barely trained him.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Locknuts said:
If Nintendo learned anything, they'd be fixing it right now. We're not seeing any signs of it though.

Not really how Nintendo rolls. I mean, the GameCube was the GameCube right up until the day the Wii released. Nintendo didn't try making too many Wii-esque games for the system, if any (they had family friendly party games, for sure, and peripheral stuff like Donkey Konga, but their GC strategy remained fairly consistent even though the next console went way off in another direction).



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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RolStoppable said:
curl-6 said:

Wii U and 3DS used established, outdated, and relatively inexpensive internal components. CPU, GPU, RAM, all withered tech. The extra costs came from the "lateral thinking" side of the equation; the tablet, for instance.

What would you suggest they do? You talk about "reaching beyond the Nintendo fanboys", but to who else would you have them reach, if not the dudebros? Children and the Wii crowd have moved on to smartphones. 

 

Anyway, the Wii's success wasn't all on motion controls. Nintendo actually made honest efforts to win back the people that bought an NES, but eventually quit console gaming when it all became about console wars and Nintendo's software output ultimately became what we know as the GC library. Most Nintendo fans on this forum hold the N64 and GC eras in high regard. However, these two consoles were failures, so reality doesn't line up with what is idealized as Nintendo's best periods of software. The Wii was a strong statement by Nintendo that the N64 and GC weren't the cream of the crop. On one hand, that means that the people who loved those consoles are often the most vocal detractors of the Wii direction. But on the other hand, that led to success for Nintendo. So to bring this post to an end (finally), Nintendo should do what pisses off the people who put the N64, GC and Wii U above the Wii.

Kids drove the NES to the bulk of its sales. The NES was hottest toy of its day. I was 9 when I got my NES, today a 9 year old wants an iPad or XBox. 

The NES and SNES eras were better than the GCN, N64, or Wii eras. But times have changed. 

And to your point about satisified customers not wanting to switch, that's true, but it doesn't just apply to dudebros. Casuals are very, very happy with the gaming they get on the iPhone, especially at the price they're getting it at. It serves them well and there are tons of new games all the time. 

I had many casual friends that bought a Wii, but today they love playing on their iPhone or Galaxy and are even happier with what they're getting now vs. the Wii. 

Petty arguements between Nintendo factions doesn't really mean jack shit in the big picture. If you have to bend over backwards to convince people that they should want a Nintendo console, then maybe the problem begins right there. A lot of people simply don't need a Nintendo console period. They make some great games, but that doesn't entitle them to have a piece of the home console market. 



Soundwave said:
zorg1000 said:

U honestly don't believe that 3DS/Wii U could have sold modestly better in the same time frame if they launched at $100 cheaper each and had more/better advertising?

By the end of this fiscal year, 3DS will be at roughly 52 million shipped with Wii U roughly around 10 million. In the same time frame, GBA was around 65 million and GC around 15 million. So it's 62 million vs 80 million, maybe they wouldn't have matched GBA/GC but if 3DS/Wii U launched at lower price points with increased advertising efforts than it may be more like 70 million at this point.


Well the 3DS did get a pretty massive price cut early on. 

With the Wii U, I think people simply don't want one. It's not all that complicated. Nintendo's concept of a family friendly console primarily driven by their sugary sweet mascots without the third party support just doesn't resonate even with kids anymore. And they lost the entire casual/fad Wii crowd to Apple so that became a dead end for them. Just like people wouldn't buy a GameCube even at $99.99. 

Nintendo has an audience problem moreso than a price problem in other words. 

Yes it did and has not recieved a price reduction since then which was 2.5 years ago (not counting the 2DS because downgraded revisions have never in the history of handhelds or consoles had a lasting affect on sales). That's like if the GBA SP was the launch model then 2 years later they introduced a cheaper model without the clamshell design and backlit screen, the redesign wouldn't have done anything for sales.

3DS is still $169 and the XL $199 while the GBA was $79 and the SP $99 at this point.

Wii U is currently $299 while GC was $99 at the same point in its life.

So Nintendo hardware is 2-3 times as much as the 6th gen counterparts at the same point in their lives. Price isn't the one and only issue but it most definitely is an issue.

If Nintendo didn't include 3D or the Gamepad then they could have realistically released their devices at a lower price point and had further price cuts since then. Super DS releasing Sept 2011 for $149 with Nintendogs+Ocarina of Time+Mario 3D Land in the launch window and Mario Kart the following Spring would have gotten off to a much stronger start than 3DS did. Having Super DS at $129 with Super DS XL at $149 by now would likely be selling more than the current numbers at $199. Super Wii releasing Sept 2013 for $249 with a Motion Plus and Nintendo Land+Wind Waker HD+Mario 3D World in the launch window and Mario Kart the following Spring would have gotten off to a much stronger start than Wii U and being priced at $199 by now would likely see sales better than the current $299.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
Soundwave said:


Well the 3DS did get a pretty massive price cut early on. 

With the Wii U, I think people simply don't want one. It's not all that complicated. Nintendo's concept of a family friendly console primarily driven by their sugary sweet mascots without the third party support just doesn't resonate even with kids anymore. And they lost the entire casual/fad Wii crowd to Apple so that became a dead end for them. Just like people wouldn't buy a GameCube even at $99.99. 

Nintendo has an audience problem moreso than a price problem in other words. 

Yes it did and has not recieved a price reduction since then which was 2.5 years ago (not counting the 2DS because downgraded revisions have never in the history of handhelds or consoles had a lasting affect on sales). That's like if the GBA SP was the launch model then 2 years later they introduced a cheaper model without the clamshell design and backlit screen, the redesign wouldn't have done anything for sales.

3DS is still $169 and the XL $199 while the GBA was $79 and the SP $99 at this point.

Wii U is currently $299 while GC was $99 at the same point in its life.

So Nintendo hardware is 2-3 times as much as the 6th gen counterparts at the same point in their lives. Price isn't the one and only issue but it most definitely is an issue.

If Nintendo didn't include 3D or the Gamepad then they could have realistically released their devices at a lower price point and had further price cuts since then. Super DS releasing Sept 2011 for $149 with Nintendogs+Ocarina of Time+Mario 3D Land in the launch window and Mario Kart the following Spring would have gotten off to a much stronger start than 3DS did. Having Super DS at $129 with Super DS XL at $149 by now would likely be selling more than the current numbers at $199. Super Wii releasing Sept 2013 for $249 with a Motion Plus and Nintendo Land+Wind Waker HD+Mario 3D World in the launch window and Mario Kart the following Spring would have gotten off to a much stronger start than Wii U and being priced at $199 by now would likely see sales better than the current $299.

$169.99 is very affordable for a game console today, electronics don't remain static in price, you can't get shit for $169.99 these days. $99 in 2002 is about $130 today so that's pretty close to the 2DS/3DS. 

The GameCube not being able to sell even at $99.99 to me illustrates that a lot of people won't buy a machine just for Nintendo games at any price. 

To be honest I think we overthink these things too much and deify hardware too much. The consumer doesn't give a shit about what your brand is, they just want the widest selection of games. 

You may say "well that Call of Duty game you're buying isn't innovative! Wouldn't you rather play this game X/Y/Z", but man, when its their money and they bust their ass at work/school all day, and all they want is that type of game to come home to ... you better damn well have that game on your platform or they're going some place else. 

And I can't say I blame them. Taking brand politics and nostalgia out of the equation, would I want a DVD/movie disc format that only had movies from one studio? Hell no. Would I switch from Netflix to a similar service that only has 1/3 of the movies? Hell no. Would I choose a cable service that only gets 1/2 the channels? No. 

I think it's just that simple. Regular people don't deify or fetishize console hardware, they just want the games. And the system that has the best selection of overall games almost always does great, from the NES to SNES to Playstation to PS2 etc. etc. We make the console wars more about the "brand" rather than looking at it from an average consumers POV. 



curl-6 said:
RolStoppable said:
curl-6 said:

1. Wii U and 3DS are withered technology.

2. Appealing to a Western audience could save them from  being forced to go third party.

3. Xbox One's sales are fine, much better than Wii U's. Once you remove the dudebros, there isn't enough of an audience left for a home console to do better than Gamecube numbers.

1. That's a clear demonstration that you don't know what that means.

2. Apparently you don't realize that the audience you speak of wants Nintendo to go third party.

3. Here you demonstrate your limited thinking. The reason why the dudebros are the lifeblood is because it's almost exclusively them who are catered to. And the reason why the GC and Wii U have been selling so low is because Nintendo is only making the games they want to make, so they aren't able to reach beyond Nintendo fanboys. The Wii U, just like the GC, leaves many people disinterested or even appalled, so they aren't buying.

Wii U and 3DS, for the most part, used established, outdated, and relatively inexpensive internal components. CPU, GPU, RAM, all withered tech. The extra costs came from the "lateral thinking" side of the equation; the tablet, for instance.

What would you suggest they do? You talk about "reaching beyond the Nintendo fanboys", but to who else would you have them reach, if not the dudebros? Children and the Wii crowd have moved on to smartphones. 

Yes, it's "lateral thinking with withered technology" not "lateral thinking with expensive-ass boondoggles".

Honestly i feel like Nintendo's trying to expand the Nintendo-core, especially with things like Amiibo, and try to find that crossover with the family audience. You're not going to get the dudebros, but you can get the nerdier end of the "core" gamers, which is possibly what you see with Amiibo and the N3DS, as well as partnerships like Bayonetta 2, attacking a high-revenue audience from a different direction.

Nor have children totally moved on to smartphones. The family experience will be an enduring part of Nintendo's market, especially as everyone else leaves local multiplayer to die in the dust. The Wii U's problem with local multiplayer is the gamepad, but that audience has always been the big moneymaker for Nintendo and there's no reason that will go away, because a good 4-player game of Mario Kart makes memories of a kind that hours alone in the dark playing Halo or trading blows in Clash of Clans with some rando halfway around the world will never match. This is not to devalue either of those experiences, but clearly there's a lot of space in the market for what Nintendo does, even acknowledging the place that smart devices take up.

That could be an interesting strategy now, that the handheld becomes the device for core gamers to get their Nintendo fix and gaming-on-the-go that mobile phones can't provide, while the console is for the high-revenue Nintendo core and also for casual party games (recall that Wii Party U did amazing things for Wii U in Japan)



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Pretty sure Wii Party U (on its own) had so-so sales, nothing special. It was basically force bundled with every Wii U in Japan for several months, including the holidays, that's why it's LTD there is respectable.