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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Would it be possible for the Wii U to run Zelda U at 60fps?

Frogger on 09 January 2015
curl-6 said:

I'm with mine on this, Wiimote humiliates dual analogue for FPS games. DA is slow, clunky, and non-immersive.


The slight increase in accuracy does not out weight the cons in everything else. I finished Prime trilogy, and all I wanted was a real controller. Pointing a rod at a screen is not immersive, and the Wiimote is clunkier than any real controller.



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AlfredoTurkey on 09 January 2015
thatguymarco said:

If there is something Nintendo's developers excell at, it's optimization. I say that it really depends on what they determine more important, 1080p resolution or 60fps, I don't think you can have both. I think it's safe to say that Ninty would choose 60fps since they don't have the dumb audience that would prefer pretty-ness over responsive-ness that Sony and Microsoft have.

- M, Carl


But do we NEED 60 for a Zelda game? It's not like it's GT or COD where twitch reflexes are needed.



curl-6 on 09 January 2015
spemanig said:
curl-6 said:

I'm with mine on this, Wiimote humiliates dual analogue for FPS games. DA is slow, clunky, and non-immersive.

The slight increase in accuracy does not out weight the cons in everything else. I finished Prime trilogy, and all I wanted was a real controller. Pointing a rod at a screen is not immersive, and the Wiimote is clunkier than any real controller.

Aiming with my own hand is far more immersive than twiddling sticks. And its more comfortable being able to have my hands further apart.



Frogger on 09 January 2015
curl-6 said:

Aiming with my own hand is far more immersive than twiddling sticks. And its more comfortable being able to have my hands further apart.


Eh. I think 99% of gamers would disagree with that.



Frogger on 09 January 2015
AlfredoTurkey said:

But do we NEED 60 for a Zelda game? It's not like it's GT or COD where twitch reflexes are needed.


Yes we do. 60fps is good for more than "twitch reflexes." Every sigle video game, including and especially Zelda, NEEDS 60fps.



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hsrob on 09 January 2015
spemanig said:
hsrob said:

Precedent was only a small part of my post, and in fact I only brought it up because people were incorrectly suggesting there was a predecent for Zelda games to run at 60fps. There isn't.

Mario Sunshine and Mario 64 were in an era where there were certainly technical barriers to running open games at 60fps.  Image quality wise Mario Sunshine was up there among the best looking games on the Gamecube so I think doubling the frame rate probably wasn't realistically an option. Furthermore, while Galaxy was at 60fps it  is much more closed-in and had much more reflex-dependent gameplay than Mario Sunshine. i.e. 60fps was more integral to the gameplay in Mario Galaxy

While I said 'combat' I was using that term loosely to any of those 'twitch' gameplay elements that exist in the Zelda franchise which would include sword-play and shooting and neither exist in great abundance or are particularly demanding/technically difficult when compared with games focused around these particular elements.  And while I agree Metroid and Zelda have much in common and share many similar gameplay elements the emphasis and weighting of the elements within the games are quite different, Zelda for example has no where near the amount of shooting that Metroid Prime has and it's well established that shooters are one genre heavily dependent on a high frame-rate. I know you claim it's not necessary for Prime's shooting style but if you've ever played Prime emulated without that smooth framerate, you really notice it.  Furthermore one of the great achievements of Prime is the simple enjoyment gained from the slick and smooth traversal through the game world which I would argue is enhanced by the unshakeable framerate.

With all other things being equal 60fps is always better, but there are games where it matters less and where other considerations can override and I think Zelda falls in that camp.

Finally as I said in my first post if we look at Smash as a comparison I think it gives a pretty good indication of what the WiiU can do at 1080p 60fps and Smash games have always been technically very strong, if not the very best on their respective systems. If Anouma and team have managed to get 1080p 60fps with the visual fidelity we have already seen of Zelda, then they have performed some kind of magic. 720p60fps is certainly possible but my hunch is that it will be 720p30fps and I think that's fine for this kind of game.


Not true. 60fps was standard by the 6th gen. Sunshine was definitely now one of the best looking GCN games. Not from a technical standpoint. Both Prime games looked and ran way better. And I disagree that Sunshine depended less on reflexes than Galaxy.

Prime's shooting is not at all comparable to an FPS. People say that framerate is important in shooters because of aiming and that's it. You don't aim in Prime. Shooting in Prime is exactly the same as shooting arrows in Wind Waker. And there is as much combat in Zelda as there is in Prime.

I notice low framerate in everything, including Zelda. I don't need to play Prime at 30fps to know that 30fps bad. Every game should be at 60fps, especially Zelda. There's no game where it "matters less."

No it wasn't, it's barely even standard this gen. Agreed that Prime looked better but on the latter point we are going to disagree.

In Prime when you locked on you could still aim within the reticle and it wasn't always best to lock on, it's simply not the same as Windwaker. You absolutely spend far more time in combat in the Prime games, and certainly far more time aiming in the first person even when not shooting. 60fps is not just about aiming in shooters, it's the fact that low frame rate is much more obvious when panning, rather than when the screen is scrolling linearly.

Again on the final point we are going to have to disagree, for my mind and in the minds of many gamers 60 fps is just not that critical in certain genres. I can live without it in Zelda and I guess time will tell whether Nintendo agrees.



AlfredoTurkey on 09 January 2015
spemanig said:
AlfredoTurkey said:

But do we NEED 60 for a Zelda game? It's not like it's GT or COD where twitch reflexes are needed.


Yes we do. 60fps is good for more than "twitch reflexes." Every sigle video game, including and especially Zelda, NEEDS 60fps.


I'm not being snarky when I say this, honest to god but... I didn't seem to need it when I was playing OOT back in the 90's. lol.



curl-6 on 09 January 2015
spemanig said:
curl-6 said:

Aiming with my own hand is far more immersive than twiddling sticks. And its more comfortable being able to have my hands further apart.

Eh. I think 99% of gamers would disagree with that.

Maybe. Different strokes for different folks.



Materia-Blade on 09 January 2015
spemanig said:
mine said:

Play Prime on the Wii. And yes - it is not comparable to an FPS as the WiiMote/Nunchuck literally destroys any other input method. Its as accurate as mouse/keyboard while being more accessible and immersive. 

BTW: don't use locking. Takes the fun away...


Prime on the Wii doesn't apply to this conversation. 60fps wasn't programed in Prime with the Wiimote in mind.

And no, they don't "destroy any other imput method." The Wiimote was a joke. The only thing it added to prime was being able to look around freely, which would have been simple with dual analog controls.

lol, the wiimote is perfect for any game with an aim. there's no denying that.



Materia-Blade on 09 January 2015
spemanig said:
curl-6 said:

I'm with mine on this, Wiimote humiliates dual analogue for FPS games. DA is slow, clunky, and non-immersive.


The slight increase in accuracy does not out weight the cons in everything else. I finished Prime trilogy, and all I wanted was a real controller. Pointing a rod at a screen is not immersive, and the Wiimote is clunkier than any real controller.

slight increase? look, you can prefer analogues but you can't deny a 1:1 pointer is far more accurate.

now tell me about these "cons in everything else".