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Forums - Microsoft - Xbox One Just went Super Saiyan with Unlocked CPU Power

mine on 03 January 2015
JustBeingReal said:


See bolded comments of mine for my replies.


 You just confirmed what I said. The PS4 more "out of balance" than the XOne which are both not so well balanced compared to the Wii U.

 

You can't move any code to the GPU. Even is AI is possible in theory, its a big difference to have it working in reality. This is because you'll need to "do something" with the computational results by moving them back from the GPU to the CPU which has to update the internal game world.

This has to be synchronized.

 

And it is the synchroziation job which is the biggest challenge a devleoper faces on unbalanced hardware designs - besides having to get the core running at all.

 

BTW: do you really think those people at Ubisoft aren't smart enough? That they wouldn't have the latest technology in compilers and tools for utilizing a GPU? That they didn't sign NDAs with every major GPU manufactor and have support beyond everything any of us here will be given?

Of course they have that all. Every big player has. 

And it says something about the current situation and the hurdles to overcome if Ubisoft wasn't able to implement the AC:U AI on the GPU side...

I don't expect that to change soon or maybe ever - AI on GPUs shown by the vendors today is something totally different than "AI" on CPU utilized in games.

 

About the sales situation: it does matter from a developers perspective on what to bet their money on and what type of experiences they can deliver at which frame rate. They will try give you what is possible WITHIN THE LIMITS of the hardware and may find some "work arounds" by using 30fps or a sub-1080p resolution. They did excactly that on the PS3 and X360. And they already do it on PS4 and XOne...

 

Did you notice that Microsoft was always stating that the resolution of the XOne games are "enough" and Sony already "back paddeling" by giving up stating that the PS4 delivers 1080p/60? Just dropped those thing silently. 

This is as those dicussions hurt them both. Sony more than Microsoft. 

Why?

 

Because Microsoft is a OS company which happens to sell hardware at subsidized prices (aka "console") to have their OS and technology running in the living room. 

But nothing will hinder Microsoft to give their OS away for FREE to other manufactors as long they manage to get some - or my expectation even more - profit from it.

The two new AMD designs of which was speculated that the x86 one would be used by Nintendo - those are for Amazon (ARM) and FACEBOOK (x86).

Guess what? Microsoft is already flirting with Facebook to get their "Games Windows" on that true next-gen console which will run circles around the XOne AND the PS4 !!

Microsoft doesn't care if the Facebook console will be the next big console as long they have a stake in it...



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walsufnir on 03 January 2015
eva01beserk said:
walsufnir said:
eva01beserk said:
walsufnir said:


You meant this thread, obviously, and evaded a direct answer to my post. Yes, there are always people who are remote to tech and think tables will change. There also people who say otherwise and they don't know what they are talking about, too. They are on both sides. Difference is that most PS4 fans are mostly wrong in why PS4 is stronger and Xbone fans are wrong by default if they say MS will close the gap :)


Did I really evaded your question? By not specifing it was the thread I read, wich I did read it, or by not giving you a ridiculous list of names of people oon the thread?

What is your stance on the performance gap by the way? Could you say what this one extra core means in comparison to the ps4?


PS4 is more powerful but the difference we saw at launch games is currently not as big because the XDK evolved fast and MS even introduced a new driver.

Adding a core will, of course, be beneficial. In which way we don't know and will also depend on the game itself. If CPU cores weren't crucial, why not remove one? 5 should be ok, I guess? Because it's only the GPU that is important, right? Wait, let's make it only 4 cores. Should be enough as the CPUs have way less GFlops than the GPU. Right?

Thing is, of course CPUs are crucial and important but we don't know how much exactly and it relies on how devs design their game.

I would give you an explanation if a 2015 game uses the additional core on a multiplatform game and I get my hands on profiling data. But I doubt many would understand it.


But dint  I hear AC:U use this sdk? If true, dint the ps4 ended up having a better patch I hear and outperformed it in the end? and the x1 is overclocked to so the diference should be massive since they use the same processor and the x1 uses one more core.

I agree with you that cpu is important, but the war now seems to be focused on graphycs only and the ps4 canot be beat due to hardware.


We don't know if they used. Who said this?



eva01beserk on 03 January 2015
walsufnir said:
eva01beserk said:
gergroy said:


So... The ps3 exclusives must have looked a lot worse than the 360 exclusives...

my opinion, it isnt something to argue or care about.  i am more concerned about the exclusive content deals publishers are making rather than these tiny details that I would literally need to have both versions side by side and pausing and zooming in in order to see the differences...

You know thats not what I meant. I even say multyplats. Everybody knows that the ps3 exclusives where better. The point is that this new secret sauce is all about fighting for multyplats.

But I agree with you, iin the end they will use their deep pockets to get exclusive deals. But it dosent matter much for me, true first party exclusive will always perform better and tend to be more enjoyable, less microtransactions and all other crap then third party exclusives. Its just that first party developers tend to really pour their heart into the project most of the time.


First party developers mostly get more time and money for a game to finish and also can concentrate on one platform. It's nothing usual first party games look better than multiplatform games, on every console.


I dont want to accept that. I would like to think that some develpers actually care about their creations aand its not just money.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

eva01beserk on 03 January 2015
walsufnir said:
eva01beserk said:
walsufnir said:


S4 is more powerful but the difference we saw at launch games is currently not as big because the XDK evolved fast and MS even introduced a new driver.

Adding a core will, of course, be beneficial. In which way we don't know and will also depend on the game itself. If CPU cores weren't crucial, why not remove one? 5 should be ok, I guess? Because it's only the GPU that is important, right? Wait, let's make it only 4 cores. Should be enough as the CPUs have way less GFlops than the GPU. Right?

Thing is, of course CPUs are crucial and important but we don't know how much exactly and it relies on how devs design their game.

I would give you an explanation if a 2015 game uses the additional core on a multiplatform game and I get my hands on profiling data. But I doubt many would understand it.


But dint  I hear AC:U use this sdk? If true, dint the ps4 ended up having a better patch I hear and outperformed it in the end? and the x1 is overclocked to so the diference should be massive since they use the same processor and the x1 uses one more core.

I agree with you that cpu is important, but the war now seems to be focused on graphycs only and the ps4 canot be beat due to hardware.


We don't know if they used. Who said this?


I think someone said it on this very  thread, dont know if true.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

LordLichtenstein on 03 January 2015
walsufnir said:

PS4 is more powerful but the difference we saw at launch games is currently not as big because the XDK evolved fast and MS even introduced a new driver.

Adding a core will, of course, be beneficial. In which way we don't know and will also depend on the game itself. If CPU cores weren't crucial, why not remove one? 5 should be ok, I guess? Because it's only the GPU that is important, right? Wait, let's make it only 4 cores. Should be enough as the CPUs have way less GFlops than the GPU. Right?

Thing is, of course CPUs are crucial and important but we don't know how much exactly and it relies on how devs design their game.

I would give you an explanation if a 2015 game uses the additional core on a multiplatform game and I get my hands on profiling data. But I doubt many would understand it.


I think the difference is bigger than ever... Have you seen Driveclub and The Order: 1886?



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mine on 03 January 2015
eva01beserk said:

You know thats not what I meant. I even say multyplats. Everybody knows that the ps3 exclusives where better. The point is that this new secret sauce is all about fighting for multyplats.

But I agree with you, iin the end they will use their deep pockets to get exclusive deals. But it dosent matter much for me, true first party exclusive will always perform better and tend to be more enjoyable, less microtransactions and all other crap then third party exclusives. Its just that first party developers tend to really pour their heart into the project most of the time.

PS3 exlusives were better when they could utilize the SPUs. Which is fine for SOME physics calculations and SOME post processing effects.

But this works only for SOME type of games and genres. 

Maybe the ones you prefer. 

On other games and genres a much more capable CPU and GPU (but lacking the raw SPU power) is much more suited. And such games were better on the X360.



Norris2k on 03 January 2015

There is no way the XBone with 3 OS and virtualization requires less cpu than the lightweigh PS4's OS (BSD, that's light). So, this optimization will come to a high cost, or will happen on the PS4 as well.
Also it leaves the XBone with 2 bottlenecks compared to the PS4 : the GPU, and the memory bandwidth. And that not something one more cpu can change.



mine on 03 January 2015
LordLichtenstein said:


I think the difference is bigger than ever... Have you seen Driveclub and The Order: 1886?


You mean that Driveclub which can barely do online? And lacking a decent damage model? 

There where times when such games were called "blender". 

Both games are looking fine and will give their players a good time (if they like them). 

But they ARE NOT earthshaking new experiences nor new technology. 

Of course there is a visual difference to the last gen - but there also is on the Wii U...

True next-gen is defined by the new types of experiences possible. Where are those? 



eva01beserk on 03 January 2015
mine said:
eva01beserk said:

You know thats not what I meant. I even say multyplats. Everybody knows that the ps3 exclusives where better. The point is that this new secret sauce is all about fighting for multyplats.

But I agree with you, iin the end they will use their deep pockets to get exclusive deals. But it dosent matter much for me, true first party exclusive will always perform better and tend to be more enjoyable, less microtransactions and all other crap then third party exclusives. Its just that first party developers tend to really pour their heart into the project most of the time.

PS3 exlusives were better when they could utilize the SPUs. Which is fine for SOME physics calculations and SOME post processing effects.

But this works only for SOME type of games and genres. 

Maybe the ones you prefer. 

On other games and genres a much more capable CPU and GPU (but lacking the raw SPU power) is much more suited. And such games were better on the X360.

Thats really hard to copare, since when the ps3 hit its stride with exclusives the 360 just stoped and for like four years there where like 3-5 games, halos gears and forzas. I could be wrong I admit Im not 100% since I dint have a 360 I never cared too research. But the comon complain on the internet was that.



It takes genuine talent to see greatness in yourself despite your absence of genuine talent.

LordLichtenstein on 03 January 2015
mine said:
LordLichtenstein said:


I think the difference is bigger than ever... Have you seen Driveclub and The Order: 1886?


You mean that Driveclub which can barely do online? And lacking a decent damage model? 

There where times when such games were called "blender". 

Both games are looking fine and will give their players a good time (if they like them). 

But they ARE NOT earthshaking new experiences nor new technology. 

Of course there is a visual difference to the last gen - but there also is on the Wii U...

True next-gen is defined by the new types of experiences possible. Where are those? 


Nope, that is YOUR definition. Not mine.