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Forums - PC Discussion - GameSpot tried to build a Pc which costs around the same as a console.

Ruler said:

- just because the ps4 and x1 are locked at 30 frames doesnt mean they cant do more. In assassins creed 4 its obvious that the ps4 is equal to performance to the amd rig. The ps4 could equally hit 42 frames per second @1080p but the developers locked it 30 to reduce any huge frame rate drops and 30 and 60 frames are the most efficient rates. 40 isnt looking so good i have read somewhere.


The key thing here though which you've phrased perfectly in favour of PCs. On consoles, the developers make the decision for you as to what YOU would prefer your game to be like. On PC, you can choose. Want the frame rate? Sacrifice the graphics and effects or resolution etc. Prefer the higher detail? take the frame rate hit. Much more control on the users part. Alternatively, if you want both, shove a few quid more in your rig and boost it's capabilities.

The expense of this is, when you pop your game in your PS4, that's as good as it will get, this can be viewed as "hassle free" or "restricted" and the option of an "endless" upgrade aspect, whilst console gamers HAVE to wait for the generation to end. Depending which side of the argument you're on, you're always going to maintain that view. However, all I know as I've been a console gamer primarily since the late 90s when the Dreamcast smoked my PC both graphically and in terms of software, is that my mates who went PC in the mid-late 00s, are still using that same spec and are able to run XB1/PS4 software on it meaning their units have been cross generational for the multiplatform stuff.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

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sc94597 said:

Nobody said I was an expert developer. This is common knowledge though. If there weren't any advantages to having both consoles use x86 why would third-parties have pushed Sony and Microsoft in that direction? They want a common architecture that allows them to take advantage of both systems at low costs. This common architecture happens to be the main hardware used in home computers since the 90's. That is why it's a thousand times easier for these developers (hyperbole.)  It is an architecture they are familiar with and it is universal for their purposes. 


Its not THAT easier to develop for x86 compared to PPC or ARM when all cores have the same instruction set.

Thats why it was easier to develop for XBox360 (3-Core PPC) and Windows (x86) then for the PS3 (PPC-SPUs). 

Of course it needs some time to get used to different optimization techniques but most developers will be fine on C-level with that and let the compiler do the rest. 

The main reason why Sony and Microsoft went x86 this gen is the same why Apple switched away from PPC: x86 got very efficient AND is fast. ARM is very efficient but has problems getting fast (compared to x86). PPC is also efficient, but IBM (the only one left besides some embedded chips) didn't invest that much money into making them fast anymore. 

Of course you'll get not the latest and greatest x86-tech within PS4 and XOne. Every of those netbook cores isn't that good. Its the number of them which adds up. But even 8 AMD netbook cores are eaten for breakfast by Intels core i5 for sure and depending whats need to be computed by a core i3...

Thats doesn't matter - those AMD APUs are simply cheap. It pays of at the moment. But within the coming years it will hurt a lot as that gen wold hold that long as previous ones...



I never got why people compare PCs 1:1 with consoles in price. It's like comparing a normal watch to a smartphone.



What does the SMART consumer do?

Buy PC with components he needs NOW to play the current games with acceptable graphics.

Why?

Because every two years you'll get the two times the power for the same price !!

And with the announced new GPUs from NV and AMD the jump will be even greater as the bandwidth to on-chip GDDR will skyrocket...

What we will also see that those "Console" designs will become a commodity as PCs will become more and more "appliances". Expect No-Name Gaming PCs outperforming even the PS4 at a lower price (at that point) within the next two years...



TheSpindler said:

I never got why people compare PCs 1:1 with consoles in price. It's like comparing a normal watch to a smartphone.


Why not? If you just CONSUME then there is "nothing special" about the PC. 

All consoles should come now with Netflix, Amazon, Internet Browser etc. . 

So do the tablets and smartphones...

 

But comparing PCs with consoles reveals something very interesting: PS4 and XOne offer the least amount of subsidizing of all 3D console generations at launch time. 

If the same performace/price ratio of a XBox360 or PS3 compared to a PC would be applied, PS4 and XOne would cost either a FRACTION of their price or they would be 2-3 TIMES MORE POWERFUL...

 

The X360 included new GPU gen with more shaders then "normal" PC cards available at the time AND a 3-core PowerPC which was faster than anything Apple used... . At a fraction of the price of a PowerMac.

The PS3 had a Cell Chip which was sold later (albeit with double precission) on a PCI card for 2000 US$... . So even the PS3 costed a fraction...

 

This time the PC costs - depending on whom you ask - "just" 50-150 bucks more. Thats simply lame what Sony and Microsoft are offering as value for money...



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mine said:
TheSpindler said:

I never got why people compare PCs 1:1 with consoles in price. It's like comparing a normal watch to a smartphone.


Why not? If you just CONSUME then there is "nothing special" about the PC. 

All consoles should come now with Netflix, Amazon, Internet Browser etc. . 

So do the tablets and smartphones...

 

But comparing PCs with consoles reveals something very interesting: PS4 and XOne offer the least amount of subsidizing of all 3D console generations at launch time. 

If the same performace/price ratio of a XBox360 or PS3 compared to a PC would be applied, PS4 and XOne would cost either a FRACTION of their price or they would be 2-3 TIMES MORE POWERFUL...

 

The X360 included new GPU gen with more shaders then "normal" PC cards available at the time AND a 3-core PowerPC which was faster than anything Apple used... . At a fraction of the price of a PowerMac.

The PS3 had a Cell Chip which was sold later (albeit with double precission) on a PCI card for 2000 US$... . So even the PS3 costed a fraction...

 

This time the PC costs - depending on whom you ask - "just" 50-150 bucks more. Thats simply lame what Sony and Microsoft are offering as value for money...


Consoles run Illustrator and Photoshop and the hundreds of software Windows and Linux run now(at the same time as playing your games even)?  I must have been out of the loop.  Last time I checked PCs had free multiplayer as well and we could upgrade parts bit by bit with the prices of said parts going down over the years(well, supposed to anyway).

Consoles can do alot more things than they could do in the past, but comparing that to what PCs can do now is laughable at best, as if Netflix, Amazon or Internet Explorer are even the beginning of what's on PCs.  Even without Windows, and even with apps on consoles, and even using something like Mint as your OS.

Even just focusing on games and the library of games on PC and the potential of emulation, I'm not even sure why people even bother.  



MikeRox said:
Ruler said:

- just because the ps4 and x1 are locked at 30 frames doesnt mean they cant do more. In assassins creed 4 its obvious that the ps4 is equal to performance to the amd rig. The ps4 could equally hit 42 frames per second @1080p but the developers locked it 30 to reduce any huge frame rate drops and 30 and 60 frames are the most efficient rates. 40 isnt looking so good i have read somewhere.


The key thing here though which you've phrased perfectly in favour of PCs. On consoles, the developers make the decision for you as to what YOU would prefer your game to be like. On PC, you can choose. Want the frame rate? Sacrifice the graphics and effects or resolution etc. Prefer the higher detail? take the frame rate hit. Much more control on the users part. Alternatively, if you want both, shove a few quid more in your rig and boost it's capabilities.

The expense of this is, when you pop your game in your PS4, that's as good as it will get, this can be viewed as "hassle free" or "restricted" and the option of an "endless" upgrade aspect, whilst console gamers HAVE to wait for the generation to end. Depending which side of the argument you're on, you're always going to maintain that view. However, all I know as I've been a console gamer primarily since the late 90s when the Dreamcast smoked my PC both graphically and in terms of software, is that my mates who went PC in the mid-late 00s, are still using that same spec and are able to run XB1/PS4 software on it meaning their units have been cross generational for the multiplatform stuff.

They make the decision for you so you dont have to worry, if the hardware comes at a deadline in performance its anoying to choose from. I rather just play the game instead trying out various of settings and wasting time or worse worrying about my hardware being outdated. These choices can emotionally set you back: should i set anti aliasing off? Should i play at high instead ultra? have i to buy a new graphicscard again? 

These thoughts can encounter you in your mind by playing the game all the time, dueto having a choice.

PCs dont hold forever in fact your hardware from 00 cant fun x1 and ps4 games simple for the fact that they dont support dx11



Ruler said:

They make the decision for you so you dont have to worry, if the hardware comes at a deadline in performance its anoying to choose from. I rather just play the game instead trying out various of settings and wasting time or worse worrying about my hardware being outdated. These choices can emotionally set you back: should i set anti aliasing off? Should i play at high instead ultra? have i to buy a new graphicscard again? 

These thoughts can encounter you in your mind by playing the game all the time, dueto having a choice.

PCs dont hold forever in fact your hardware from 00 cant fun x1 and ps4 games simple for the fact that they dont support dx11


Mid-late 00s is 2005-2009 btw. I didn't say they lasted forever, I said they were still able to play games that are coming out on PS4/XB1.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

Ruler said:

They make the decision for you so you dont have to worry, if the hardware comes at a deadline in performance its anoying to choose from.

The problem is: the decisions they make often aren't the best decisions for the players.

If the publisher / PR department says: the game HAS to be released with 1080p (with occasional slowdowns), we already announced that resolution on E3, the developers can't decide to release it in 900p to get a stable framerate.



Conina said:
Ruler said:

They make the decision for you so you dont have to worry, if the hardware comes at a deadline in performance its anoying to choose from.

The problem is: the decisions they make often aren't the best decisions for the players.

If the publisher / PR department says: the game HAS to be released with 1080p (with occasional slowdowns), we already announced that resolution on E3, the developers can't decide to release it in 900p to get a stable framerate.


they choose 30 frames because 40 frames dont look as good, its only worth 60 fps and nothing below if you want go beyond 30

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/11/05/understanding-frame-rate-and-its-importance