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Forums - Gaming - What conventions would you like to see changed in Zelda U?

cheshirescat said:
Remove the damn stealth sections, they are tedious, unnecessary, clunky and add nothing to the games, worse they detract from them because the basic mechanics of zelda games doesn't lend itself to stealth gameplay.

It worked really well in Majora's Mask by being combined with a platforming section.

Shit, I just said something positive about Majora's Mask. I feel dirty.



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the_dengle said:

I feel like pulling my hair out every time I see this. Which is very often, because it turns out not a lot of people can tell the difference between a puzzle game and an adventure game these days. I guess it's hard to blame them when games media is so insistent that Telltale makes adventure games, as opposed to visual novels that are dry on gameplay even compared to other visual novels.

Man, remember the good old days of Zelda 1 when dungeons tested your skill rather than your patience? I don't.

"Push every block until you find the one that moves" is such a great idea for level designs, I think we'll reuse it 16 times. It really makes the game challenging and engaging and not just tedious!

Hell, there are probably more. This was just from a quick skim.

How is it testing your patience? Once you move the first block, you know what to expect. There are a limited amount of blocks in the room and a limited amount of directions to push them. It takes like 30 seconds to figure out which block is the right one to move. 99% of the time the rooms are not empty. The blocks are at the point of the rooms. You usually have cleared a rooma very difficult enemies, and the last thing to do is to move a block.

And just because I am suggesting that puzzles be taken out of Zelda games, doesn't mean that dungeons should just be rooms where you move blocks.



8. Get rid of the green.

Why does Link need a green hat and tunic? We all know who he is. I actually don't care that much, but it's one of those pointless things in Zelda that don't need to be there for it to be enjoyable or a Zelda game. I'd be fine if that blue tunic and no hat was how Link is gonna be through out.

 

I agree. A customizable character wardrobe would be awesome for this game!



XBOX ONE/Wii U/3DS/PC

RIP Iwata 12/6/1959-7/11/2015

Thanks for all the great memories!

the_dengle said:

I'll try my hand at this though.

1: Don't reward the player for cutting grass. If they want rupees, hearts, or ammo, they are going to have to earn them. Let the grass be cut if the player chooses to do so, but don't incentivize it.

2: Link should respawn with full health. Find a better way to punish players for dying than starting them with 3 hearts (or 6 in Skyward Sword's case). The only thing that accomplishes is wasting the player's time while they farm for hearts or quick-travel to a fairy fountain or potion shop. It does not make the game more fun or more difficult, only more tedious.

3: Make the map encourage exploration. Previously this has been achieved by hiding parts of the map the player has not yet explored, but if the Game Awards demo is any indication, we will have access to the full map from the start of the game. This means EAD 3 will have to find a new way to use the map to convey a sense of the unknown.

4: Good swordplay. Sword-and-shield combat barely passed for "combat" at all in Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. Despite the attempts of Wind Waker and Twilight Princess to develop the swordplay further, it wasn't actually good in a 3D Zelda game until Skyward Sword. Just because they seem to have dropped the motion controls doesn't mean they should go back to pre-Skyward Sword swordplay. They should try to adapt a similar system -- not 8-directional slashes plus stabs, but new mechanics that make sense for button controls. Honestly, the old mechanics are even okay, but they were never fully utilized. You could perform vertical or horizontal slashes at will, but enemies never required you to use a specific attack, making it an empty distinction.

5: Lots more puzzles because I want spemanig to be mad. :P

1. That's never really bothered me because hero mode doesn't really reward players for cutting grass. But I wouldn't really care if they took it out, since I try to use potions for Heath anyway.

2. It's another thing he never really minded, because I don't really Die in the games. Are usually just continue playing with the lower health until I naturally gain it back. But I wouldn't care if what you suggested came to fruition in the new Zelda game.

3. I agree completely! I love collecting map pieces in wind Waker. I hope there is something similar in this one.

4. I actually think the sword play and when Waker was fine. Same with twilight Princess. I hated the store play in skyward sword. My issue isn't with how the combat feels, but more with how the enemies are designed. I love the variety, but I hate how simple they act. And have nonaggressive they are. If they can expand upon the combat in twilight Princess, while making the enemies tougher, they could have something great.

5. That would make me so grumpy... Because I would know it was all your fault lol.



spemanig said:

How is it testing your patience? Once you move the first block, you know what to expect. There are a limited amount of blocks in the room and a limited amount of directions to push them. It takes like 30 seconds to figure out which block is the right one to move. 99% of the time the rooms are not empty. The blocks are at the point of the rooms. You usually have cleared a rooma very difficult enemies, and the last thing to do is to move a block.

And just because I am suggesting that puzzles be taken out of Zelda games, doesn't mean that dungeons should just be rooms where you move blocks.

It's a pointless room. They do not all have enemies in them, I only remember a few being filled with darknuts but it really doesn't matter. You can just ignore them and go for the stairs anyway, in which case there might as well be no enemies and no blocks at all.

Like many very old games, Zelda 1 is designed to slow the player down in ways that don't add difficulty. Like forcing them to spend 30 seconds pushing random blocks until they find the right one... 11 times in a single dungeon... or like, upon death, returning them to the start of the dungeon they're in with only 3 hearts -- late in the game, this is a death sentence. Time to leave the dungeon and take a detour to the fairy pond. Or by making rupee drops extremely scarce and mostly one at a time (ocassionally five), while most of the secrets hidden in the overworld are old men who will take your rupees or play random-guess minigames that will also take your rupees, meanwhile when you actually find a great secret, instead of being rewarded for finding it by receiving a great item, your reward is the ability to purchase that item for 250 rupees, literally 98% of your wallet capacity. The rupee grind in Zelda 1 is so ridiculous, it's far worse than the experience grind in Zelda II and yet people complain about that.

This game is absolutely terrible. If a modern Zelda game was released with any of this bullshit people would tear it apart. Hell, Skyward Sword got shit for having a couple of recurring boss fights that play out completely differently each time. Meanwhile people can't stop drooling over original Zelda which reused the same stupid room gimmick 16 times.

And as I said, Zelda has very few puzzles to begin with. It is now and always has been an adventure game. You know, use bomb on wall. Use candle on tree. Use raft on water. These weren't puzzles 30 years ago and they aren't suddenly puzzles now just because it's a whip instead of a bomb and you're using it on a lever instead of a wall. You are playing an adventure game, exploring the game world by interacting with it. If you remove the action from Zelda you get a game that has more in common with Grim Fandango than with Tetris.

Zelda 1 is just a shitty adventure game, but it is an adventure game nonetheless.



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spemanig said:

1. That's never really bothered me because hero mode doesn't really reward players for cutting grass. But I wouldn't really care if they took it out, since I try to use potions for Heath anyway.

2. It's another thing he never really minded, because I don't really Die in the games. Are usually just continue playing with the lower health until I naturally gain it back. But I wouldn't care if what you suggested came to fruition in the new Zelda game.

3. I agree completely! I love collecting map pieces in wind Waker. I hope there is something similar in this one.

4. I actually think the sword play and when Waker was fine. Same with twilight Princess. I hated the store play in skyward sword. My issue isn't with how the combat feels, but more with how the enemies are designed. I love the variety, but I hate how simple they act. And have nonaggressive they are. If they can expand upon the combat in twilight Princess, while making the enemies tougher, they could have something great.

5. That would make me so grumpy... Because I would know it was all your fault lol.

1. But hearts aren't the only thing you get from grass. More importantly, I don't want rupees to be obtained from cutting grass. Don't reward the player for turning the game into lawnmower simulator 2015.

4. If you liked Wind Waker's combat but feel that Skyward Sword enemies weren't aggressive enough I don't even know how to handle that. Wind Waker enemies hardly ever attack. Every fight comes down to mashing B, or waiting for them to take a single swing at you so you can press the big glowing counter button. Skyward Sword is practically exactly the same thing, except if you mash sword attacks you'll be punished and instead of a big glowing counter button you actually have to think for one second about which attack would work the best. So I guess what I meant to say is that it's the complete opposite of Wind Waker combat, in that Wind Waker combat is shit while Skyward Sword's is good -- not great, but good. And the enemies in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess are much, much simpler than in Skyward Sword. Also the shield was practically useless until Skyward Sword.



the_dengle said:

It's a pointless room. They do not all have enemies in them, I only remember a few being filled with darknuts but it really doesn't matter. You can just ignore them and go for the stairs anyway, in which case there might as well be no enemies and no blocks at all.

Like many very old games, Zelda 1 is designed to slow the player down in ways that don't add difficulty. Like forcing them to spend 30 seconds pushing random blocks until they find the right one... 11 times in a single dungeon... or like, upon death, returning them to the start of the dungeon they're in with only 3 hearts -- late in the game, this is a death sentence. Time to leave the dungeon and take a detour to the fairy pond. Or by making rupee drops extremely scarce and mostly one at a time (ocassionally five), while most of the secrets hidden in the overworld are old men who will take your rupees or play random-guess minigames that will also take your rupees, meanwhile when you actually find a great secret, instead of being rewarded for finding it by receiving a great item, your reward is the ability to purchase that item for 250 rupees, literally 98% of your wallet capacity. The rupee grind in Zelda 1 is so ridiculous, it's far worse than the experience grind in Zelda II and yet people complain about that.

This game is absolutely terrible. If a modern Zelda game was released with any of this bullshit people would tear it apart. Hell, Skyward Sword got shit for having a couple of recurring boss fights that play out completely differently each time. Meanwhile people can't stop drooling over original Zelda which reused the same stupid room gimmick 16 times.

And as I said, Zelda has very few puzzles to begin with. It is now and always has been an adventure game. You know, use bomb on wall. Use candle on tree. Use raft on water. These weren't puzzles 30 years ago and they aren't suddenly puzzles now just because it's a whip instead of a bomb and you're using it on a lever instead of a wall. You are playing an adventure game, exploring the game world by interacting with it. If you remove the action from Zelda you get a game that has more in common with Grim Fandango than with Tetris.

Zelda 1 is just a shitty adventure game, but it is an adventure game nonetheless.


 You are greatly exaggerated. If you're moving blocks to open doors 11 times in a single dungeon, that's 5 1/2 minutes wasted in one dungeon. That's it. You'll be in that dungeon for a much larger amount of time if it's your first time through. That time sink is inconsequential. 

The game is still amazing. That doesn't mean that it perfectly holds up today, but it still plays better than some of the most modern Zelda games. Zelda has plenty of puzzles now. Don't pretend that all the puzzles in modern Zeldas are simply "Pulling a lever with a weapon" because they aren't. They are an integral dungeon element now, and you won't find a single dungeon in modern Zelda games without many of them. Zelda may not be a puzzle game, but it's dungeons have way too many. The dungeons should be testing your combat skills, not your cranial ones. And not your ability to pull a lever.

I wouldn't mind three or so separate and fully dedicated "temple" that were focused on extremely tough and intricate puzzle design throughout, but leave puzzles out of the eight or so standard dungeons.



It would be cool if you could change different aspects of Link in the beginning, kind of like Skyrim but less extensive. It would also be nice if, by your choices, you could make different relationships with people to change the situations you're in and outcome. Like you could choose to strengthen your friendship with someone but that would make someone else dislike you, idk, that wasn't a very good example but that's the basics of what I mean.



 

I'd like to see items other than the arrows, bombs and the hookshot get used more often in combat, make the intro segment shorter, keep the Run button (but no stamina meter) and shield system from skyward sword, make enemies more aggressive and if you die you come back with half of your hearts.



the_dengle said:

1. But hearts aren't the only thing you get from grass. More importantly, I don't want rupees to be obtained from cutting grass. Don't reward the player for turning the game into lawnmower simulator 2015.

4. If you liked Wind Waker's combat but feel that Skyward Sword enemies weren't aggressive enough I don't even know how to handle that. Wind Waker enemies hardly ever attack. Every fight comes down to mashing B, or waiting for them to take a single swing at you so you can press the big glowing counter button. Skyward Sword is practically exactly the same thing, except if you mash sword attacks you'll be punished and instead of a big glowing counter button you actually have to think for one second about which attack would work the best. So I guess what I meant to say is that it's the complete opposite of Wind Waker combat, in that Wind Waker combat is shit while Skyward Sword's is good -- not great, but good. And the enemies in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess are much, much simpler than in Skyward Sword. Also the shield was practically useless until Skyward Sword.

You misunderstand. I like the Wind Waker's combat from a control perspective. I hate skyward sword combat from a control perspective. The enemies in both wind Waker and skyward sword are designed poorly. Skyward sword hadmuch worse enemy design though.any complexity in skyward sword combat was artificial. They were very few enemies in skyward sword that you couldn't just flail your arms about to win, And anyone who didn't came down to this fruit ninja directional slash. The difference is that Wind Waker actually felt good to play, while skyward sword was a mess. The original Zelda had just one jab input, and had better combat than skyward sword. And the shield mechanics were never poor in Zelda until skyward sword. Destructible Sheilds have no place in the Zelda. Find a better way to punish players who abuse shield immunity.