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Forums - Gaming - Ubisoft GDC Presentation of PS4 & X1 GPU & CPU Performance

ethomaz said:

walsufnir said:

Why wouldn't they? And where do they say they didn't? Any detail on the test for Xbone is missing. They are going from DX11 to PS4 optimization and PS4 details talk.

I guess it is why you need the eSRAM for framebuffer... most devs will use eSRAM for that and it is already not enough for big 1080 framebuffer with post-processing stufs.

They don't have space on eSRAM to put GPU compute.

No dev will sacrifice framebuffer to use the eSRAM for other thing.

 

We don't know how big data will be in either case but this test was to show gpgpu and we are not given any details on it regarding Xbox numbers.

What you and others are doing is guessing what the slides are to show us but sadly don't. That's why I say there is data missing and infering anything off this is close to impossible in comparison of hardware.



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walsufnir said:
ICStats said:
walsufnir said:
ethomaz said:

mornelithe said:

You mean last year, before Microsoft bumped the clock up 10%?  And this year...after the bump, it shows differently?  No way!

Or after June SDK that free up the Kinect use of the CPU :D


1. The first benchmark arose when consoles already launched. So it was after the upclock.

2. Kinect freed gpu resources, not CPU. A shame ethomaz, as you want to sell us yourself as a hardware specialist and then you come up with this.

 

Either way, there is clearly data missing to explain numbers to us further.

This benchmark gives the performance for "5 milliseconds", in other words it is peak CPU performance without system overhead, and it is in line with the XB1's faster CPU clock speed.  The reason XB1 came short overall is because of system overhead (for Kinect voice recognition, multiple OS, snap, etc.).

 

What? So you say the system overhead fluctuates, let's say, every ten ms? That's most likely not true and I would be glad to be told otherwise with data.

Sure, it does.  System overhead is some amount of time on a core per frame.  Some of it will be in a burst like some 'ms' at the end of a frame; some of it just background tasks.

If you're doing a 5ms CPU benchmark then system overhead should be unnoticeable since the are 4 cores.  System will take one, and the benchmark should run on another with little contention.  You would see the overhead when you try to pack all 4 cores like in a full game.

The point of doing these measures like "number of dancers in 5ms" is for budgeting.  You have some budget per frame, say for Ubisoft's 30fps games the amount of CPU time per frame is (4 * 33.3ms - System_Overhead).  Their benchmark tells them how many dancers they can do per ms, but you have to count system overhead to determine number of dancers per frame.



My 8th gen collection

ICStats said:
walsufnir said:

 

What? So you say the system overhead fluctuates, let's say, every ten ms? That's most likely not true and I would be glad to be told otherwise with data.

Sure, it does.  System overhead is some amount of time on a core per frame.  Some of it will be in a burst like some 'ms' at the end of a frame; some of it just background tasks.

If you're doing a 5ms CPU benchmark then system overhead should be unnoticeable since the are 4 cores.  System will take one, and the benchmark should run on another with little contention.  You would see the overhead when you try to pack all 4 cores like in a full game.

The point of doing these measures like "number of dancers in 5ms" is for budgeting.  You have some budget per frame, say for Ubisoft's 30fps games the amount of CPU time per frame is (4 * 33.3ms - System_Overhead).  Their benchmark tells them how many dancers they can do per ms, but you have to count system overhead to determine number of dancers per frame.


Actually this is indeed an interesting topic to talk about as this gen we have full fledged multi-tasking operating systems with a specific scheduler at hand in both systems which, when measuring and judging performance, plays a significant role outside of pure specs which influences performance possibly greatly.

But something seems wrong with what you are trying to say: Both systems take 2 of their 8 cores for operating system purposes so I don't see why the remaining 6 cores should suffer from that, other than the scheduler does some bad work but even then this is intransparent for the remaining cores which are for game purposes.

Anyway, these are details we will probably never get to know but I do know that dev tools nowadays also consider schedulers of the current gen consoles.



ethomaz said:

Found that thread in GAF (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=915229) with a summary:

  • X1 Marginally faster CPU (due to higher clock speed, 1.6ghz vs 1.75ghz)
  • PS4 - Has actually significantly more GPU benchmarking than thought compared to Xbox1, nearly 100% more.
  • CPU + GPGPU management is essential and seems no where near optimal this early in the generation.

Full article: http://www.redgamingtech.com/ubisoft-gdc-presentation-of-ps4-x1-gpu-cpu-performance/

 

Some slides.

 

The key point is they say bot CPUs are weak and bootleneck to AI processing... weird they can't explain how AI processing can hold the resolution of a game from 1080p to 900p... the bench showed cleary they have a lot of PS4's GPU power to be used.

Have a nice read.

In that Benchmark X1 Marginally faster CPU not because of the higher clock speed (1.6ghz vs 1.75ghz); it is due to the fact XOne CPU was using ESRAM, which only works in theory on that Benchmark(ESRAM is mostly used by the GPU). In reality, real game application, Devs already said PS4 CPU is slighty faster than XOne CPU, and the Combo CPU + GPU is massively in favour to PS4.



Kyuu said:

dat Cell T_T if only was it less developer-unfriendly..

The Cell in the PS3 works like a hybrid CPU/GPU, is responsible of plenty of heavy task such as polygons processing, and other graphical tasks, this is why it was so powerful. A lot of its power is used for things which are usually done by the GPU.   XBox 360, in the end, was a more impressive piece of hardware, with a far better GPU, more powerful and advanced, a more balanced architecture and friendly to develop for.  CPU alone means nothing. It's the whole architecture which really matters.



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walsufnir said:

But something seems wrong with what you are trying to say: Both systems take 2 of their 8 cores for operating system purposes so I don't see why the remaining 6 cores should suffer from that, other than the scheduler does some bad work but even then this is intransparent for the remaining cores which are for game purposes.

Right, I don't think the other 6 cores would suffer from that.  But you're assuming that they both take 2 cores, but we don't know that.  The running assumption is that XB1 has been reserving more core time than the PS4.  How can that be if they both reserve 2 cores?  Maybe PS4 reserves 2 cores and XB1 reserves 2.5? Then overall you see how a PS4 game could do more CPU work even if the CPU is slightly slower.



My 8th gen collection

Captain_Tom said:
 

Hey, don't get me wrong - I completely agree that the grand majority of devs have been lazy with the extra performance.  Heck I will use ACU as an EXCELLENT example:

-Ubisoft says that the CPU's are not fast enough to handle 60 FPS with so many people on screen.  This is true if you only use the CPU for both of those things.  However large numbers of similar calculations are great for GPGPU. Hmmmmm, oh yeah Ubisofts hordes of stupid civilians would be perfect for GPGPU.  But they know that the X1's paltry GPGPU capabilities wouldn't make much of a difference, and so they were to lazy to take full advantage of the PS4 hardware.

-Yes Naughty Dog and Guerilla Games will come out and make ACU look practically last gen in comparison.  Don't kid yourself, third parties never want their games to look bad on even one platform and they will change there ways to catch up.  Just look at how ND and GG forced DICE to make BF3 take full advantage of the PS3.  It had higher res tectures, better lighting, more particle affects, and better AA than the 360 once they used the CELL's SPs effectivelly...And the PS3 was only 50% stronger than the 360 at best, so imagine what will happen now...

Yeah, you're right , :)

............they will obliterate their competitor on graphic department and on first time ever the most console sold with the more powerful spec and  i hope we will see great games in the future with great graphic, something that could only been dreamed of when it was happend during PS2 vs Xbox original era.



HollyGamer said:
Captain_Tom said:
 

Hey, don't get me wrong - I completely agree that the grand majority of devs have been lazy with the extra performance.  Heck I will use ACU as an EXCELLENT example:

-Ubisoft says that the CPU's are not fast enough to handle 60 FPS with so many people on screen.  This is true if you only use the CPU for both of those things.  However large numbers of similar calculations are great for GPGPU. Hmmmmm, oh yeah Ubisofts hordes of stupid civilians would be perfect for GPGPU.  But they know that the X1's paltry GPGPU capabilities wouldn't make much of a difference, and so they were to lazy to take full advantage of the PS4 hardware.

-Yes Naughty Dog and Guerilla Games will come out and make ACU look practically last gen in comparison.  Don't kid yourself, third parties never want their games to look bad on even one platform and they will change there ways to catch up.  Just look at how ND and GG forced DICE to make BF3 take full advantage of the PS3.  It had higher res tectures, better lighting, more particle affects, and better AA than the 360 once they used the CELL's SPs effectivelly...And the PS3 was only 50% stronger than the 360 at best, so imagine what will happen now...

Yeah, you're right , :)

............they will obliterate their competitor on graphic department and on first time ever the most console sold with the more powerful spec and  i hope we will see great games in the future with great graphic, something that could only been dreamed of when it was happend during PS2 vs Xbox original era.

:)



More info about the console capability.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=916219

It is new and seems like PS4 (and Xbone too) have a addictional GPU compute module (outside the main GPU) that can do media tasks.

Interesting.



ethomaz said:

More info about the console capability.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=916219

It is new and seems like PS4 (and Xbone too) have a addictional GPU compute module (outside the main GPU) that can do media tasks.

Interesting.


This was new to you? I don't expect to see much of this anytime soon, if ever.  It's totally up to both MS or Sony to use this and especially probably only for media play purposes.

But yes, at least interesting :)