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Forums - Politics - The Qur'an Exposed Thread

 

Is Nintentacle Religionintentacle?

Yes. 6 75.00%
 
No. 1 12.50%
 
Maybe so. 1 12.50%
 
Total:8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_in_the_Bible

Muslims 'scholars' seem to think that Muhammad is mentioned numerous times in the Bible -- just not by name!

If I recall correctly, in Genesis, God said "names are overrated anyway!" -- amen.

---

Here's what the Quran says about people like you Nintentacle!

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...

but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"




"On my business card I am a corporate president. In my mind I am a game developer. But in my heart I am a gamer." - Satoru Iwata

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Also Nintentacle what is the point of this thread? Are you trying to imply your religion is anymore credible than Islam?



LurkerJ said:

I am not asking about the purpose of life. I am asking why Allah calls himself the most merciful. A grand gesture of mercy would've been not creating the world we live in at all. But Allah did create this merciless world. The purpose you guys are talking about makes the matter even worse. It also leads to another question: Why did Allah need to create and test his creatures? 

(I know very little of the Qur'an, but a decent amount about the Christian Bible, so consider my expertise to be in general theology)

I assume the mercy comes in by the fact that Allah/God gives us a chance to have eternal salvation. We unfortunately threw away so many of the chances we were given by eating of the forbidden fruit and murdering Jesus and repeatedly showing our sinful nature, but God still loves us. He has not destroyed us, could that not be considered the ultimate act of mercy by an all powerful creator? He is giving us all a chance to prove we are good, is that not generous? 

Why create and test creatures? Well that is a much more difficult question. God is not human, and thus he doesn't use human logic. I could humanize God by talking about the desire to create and the desire to love and the desire to be loved, but that is humanizing. We can't know how the Creator thinks and as such, I don't think that question holds much merit.

LurkerJ said:

This raises more questions than it answers. Allah created naturally destructive creatures. If Allah is merciful, he should forgive us all for acting in our nature. The answer to your question would be Yes! Naturally destructive humans deserve his mercy. 

We are not beasts. Beasts are forgiven for their nature, we are given knowledge and wisdom and the ability to choose between right and wrong. We are not naturally good or evil, we make the choice of who to be. And yet, we are still forgiven for our sins when we make the wrong choice. God understands that we will make mistakes and we will sin, that is why he forgives us if we truly repent. Is that not also mercy?



This thread's done well enough, so i'll let it live for now (can't say for certain what the others will do, though).



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Leadified said:

Also Nintentacle what is the point of this thread? Are you trying to imply your religion is anymore credible than Islam?


It may not be more credible, but it's certainly much nicer.

"So when they continued asking him, he [Yeshua] lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

John 8:7

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."

Matthew 7:1

“Put your sword back in its place,” Yeshua said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

Matthew 26:52



"On my business card I am a corporate president. In my mind I am a game developer. But in my heart I am a gamer." - Satoru Iwata

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Cirio said:
LurkerJ said:
VXIII said:
LurkerJ said:
VXIII said:

It is not the name that is written (Mohammed) "the Messenger,... , whom they find written " meaning the messenger is referred to in those books. As for the references themselves, they are not a set in stone (as they should be) they are only references. Each group try to apply their beliefs on the subject. Feel free to waste your time. http://www.answering-christianity.com/prediction.htm

 

A word of advice, if you want to "find" something, you should start with the main subjects... with the basics.

What are the basics ? 

I started reading the Quran and I had to stop after a few pages. It's hard to believe that Allah is "the most merciful the most gracious" when we live in a world where animals eat weaker animals to survive.

Understanding the philosophy behind existence and  life through Quran, perhaps?

The purpose of life is not ultimate justice or or god being the most merciful, that is the conclusion of all things.

As for the reality of the world, "created death and life to test you [as to] which of you is best in deed" it was never meant to be perfect. Not from Quran perspective anyways.

I don't understand. Allah says he/she is the most merciful period but he rarely shows it. Can you show me his mercy? I am not asking about the purpose of life or how it should be. Edit: I am not sure what you are trying to tell me to be honest.

Islam revolves around the belief of an eternal afterlife. If one believes in God and shows patience in this short life, then God will grant them an eternal life in Heaven. If one also lives a life filled with sin but eventually realizes their wrong-doings and change their way, then God will forgive them and grant them Heaven. Therefore, God is believed to be the most merciful.

Also, this current life is believed to be a test from God, and it is also believed that it will be difficult for the believers (Muslims) on purpose because God is testing them for the eternal life. If the believer shows patience and follows the religion during the short life, they will pass the test and live the eternal life in harmony and utopia forever. Lastly with your concerns about animals, all non-human animals will be granted eternal life in heaven. 

That is the ultimate belief, and the reason why God is believed to be the most merciful.

An Interestin bit about animals. The guy in the video linked above by your fellow Muslim says that anything non human (even stars?) is considered a muslim. They are in heaven by default as a result. It does make some sense from your religion's perspective at least. However, the merciness part still doesn't sit with me at all. For Allah to call himself the most merciful he has to really go out of his way to show mercy at all times. Which I don't believe he does. 

If you want to believe that the test we are given is fair, just and merciful, go ahead. I, however, believe that Allah doesn't deserve the most merciful award. As I said earlier, it would've been more merciful if we weren't created at all. 

I would like to hear your input on the discussion I am having with your fellow Muslim here http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=6760652 . I will understand if don't have the time to do it or you simply don't care enough to continue. Thank you either way.



BraveNewWorld said:
Leadified said:

Also Nintentacle what is the point of this thread? Are you trying to imply your religion is anymore credible than Islam?


It may not be more credible, but it's certainly much nicer.

"So when they continued asking him, he [Yeshua] lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

John 8:7

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."

Matthew 7:1

“Put your sword back in its place,” Yeshua said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

Matthew 26:52

That part is true, out of all three the New Testament is definitely the book that violence especially is a big no no. God especially kills far fewer people in the NT compared to the OT. Buuut it does also contain some not so nice verses.

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” - Revelation 21:8

I'll give credit where credit is due though.



comflash2 said:
LurkerJ said:

I did and it confused me. My question was different than the one being asked but let's discuss what this guy is saying. He says "before we came in this world god asked us who would like to become a human being?" I don't remember being asked. I am being serious here. I'd rather be an angel with no freewil. Just like the guy in the vidoe is describing them.

After that he quotes the quran and the Surah mentioned is shown on the screen. I didn't understand what he exactly said. http://quran.com/33/72 is this the same Surah and he was paraphrasing? "Indeed, we offered the Trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, and they declined to bear it and feared it; but man [undertake to] bear it. Indeed, he was unjust and ignorant." Who is the man referred to here ? All humans?


Yes... the one born as human. We accept the challange and born as human with the free will. In hereafter, we will be asked what is our deed.

Actually if you learn more about islam, you can see how Allah compassion and love to us. The trial extremely bias to make the human "pass" the test

1) 1 good deed count as 10 good deed
2) 1 bad deed count as 1 sin
3) 1 good intent but not excuted count as 1 good deed
4) 1 bad intent but not excuted not count as sin
5) Everytime human ask for forgiveness, he will be forgiven (except related to other human. need to get their forgiveness 1st)
6) if message of islam didnt arrive to his knowledge or he is give wrong perception of islam (thus refuse islam), he will be forgiven for not accepting islam (ahlul fitrah) and will be only judged only their good/bad sin. The burden will be carry by the muslim, who fail to deliver message.
7) Every qaum (tribes) will be sent a warner (prophet) which will get get direct message from Allah with "sign" (miracle to proof they get message from Allah) when earlier message been corrupted.
8) and a lot more...  that i may missed

Any bad deed to other human will need other person forgiveness, or his some of good deed will be given to that person. If this person didn't have good deed anymore, he need to take to carry that person sin.

At the end, at the judgement day, the one with more good deeds than bad deed (even by 1 point) will be in heaven.

you can say, the judgement of trial in this world supposed to be "easy"  but lot of people actually failed. 

Interesting. I didn't understand everything but it's interesting. Some of what you are saying might sound merciful to you and I do think it's generous from Allah. But I don't believe it's enough to grant Allah "the most merciful" title.



VXIII said:

It is not the name that is written (Mohammed) "the Messenger,... , whom they find written " meaning the messenger is referred to in those books. As for the references themselves, they are not a set in stone (as they shouldn't be) they are only references. Each group try to apply their beliefs on the subject. Feel free to waste your time. http://www.answering-christianity.com/prediction.htm

 

A word of advice, if you want to "find" something, you should start with the main subjects... with the basics.

The "comforter" is the Holy Spirit. Jesus said he would send a comforter to his apostles, but Muhammad was born hundreds of years later.



Frank_kc said:
Old Testament: Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16

Hebrew Text: "Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."

The name is there: Muhammadim

However, see how your folks translated his name: "altogether lovely" is other copies of the bible....

The person who wrote that part was talking about a lover. How can the lover be Muhammad if he wasn't born yet?

Regardless, this isn't in the Torah (5 books of Moses) or Gospel like the Qur'an said it was in.