starcraft said:
Hi Shinobi
I have a few things to address here, and will do so as best I can.
Firstly, my thoughts on mod history is that it should remain private without the explicit permission of the user to reveal it. However, as users in this thread routinely demand answers for moderations that occured concerning others, I can understand why a mod felt the need to share Todd's history. I might have gone a different way, but we cannot have our cake and eat it too, so I get it.
P1 - Speaking of having your cake and eating it too, that brings us to the thread, and post, you're concerned about. As you've noted, other similar threads might have been allowed to go on in recent days. If you look at my wall, Ethomaz has already asked me about that. I don't know why that is, as I think they are equally unnecessary. But as is noted in your post and in the thread, it was an anti-thread, a reactive thread. Kitler is not, in my opinion, a fanboy. But he does certainly have a console of choice. I do not think it is unreasonable to state that.
P2 - The second half of my post offers up questions. And they were genuine ones. If I feel a thread is unnecessary, as I made clear, is it not reasonable to ask what the goals of that thread are? Mods are not impervious. My inclination was to lock that thread, and I asked other mods about it. But as Cone pointed out, the other mods were busy with Nintendo Direct (which is where the permaban joke came from - like it or not you've accepted it was very obviously a joke). So, absent that, I asked Kitler what the point was. I have not heard from Kitler, and would be happy to apologize if he took offense to the joke. But clearly, we'd not joke about that with anyone who really was an imminent contender for a permaban.
P3 - As you're now aware, the thread was eventually locked because of other comments. We'd hoped to simply avoid discussing the subject, and in hindsight should have locked that gay mods thread immediately and left it at that - we created a mess for ourselves I wont deny it. But frankly more than enough users have voiced real concern that that thread was left alive, and that subsequent comments like that were made. Rightly or wrongly, threads about the success or otherwise of the Xbox One's past, present and future price drops are a dime a dozen. As such, preventing people from feeling victimised, belittled or objectified was more important.
P4 - As Cone has pointed out, it was a poor thread from the outset. But ultimately the locking wasn't about that. We weren't entirely upfront about that - but with the information we had at the time, I am sure you can see why we simply just wanted to shut it all down as quietly as possible.
P5 - As an aside - report mods if you feel its appropriate. As a matter of principle the reports are either left for other mods, or elevated to Smeags level and dismissed for him to deal with as he sees fit.
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Yes i agree mod history should be private and this should be made a rule. Perhaps give the right to reveal mod history to the user himself and maybe only the head mod in a private discussion. Theres no need for the entire community to be shown a single users mod history. Either that or make it fully public.
Before i reply to your other paragraphs, i just want to make clear what the main reason I came into this thread was for. We are discussing three seperate issues here all mixed in one.
1. Your post in the thread and whether or not it was against the rules.
2. The validity of Kitlers OP and Thread. Both in its own right and in comparison to the one Seece created.
3. The reactions and decisions taken by the mods to lock the thread and the reasons behind it. And also to address the inconsistincy here as to when a thread should be locked or not, when in a like for like case the same was not done in another thread.
Point 3 is the main reason why i posted in this thread, just thought i should make that clear as it talks to a bigger issue than the other 2. It also makes it unclear for posters as to when threads get locked etc. The other 2 is more about opinion and intepretation and i dont think much will come from that. I mean it pretty much never happens where someone changes someone elses perspective/stance on a topic that is primarily based around opinion. In contrast, point 3 is something we can discuss from a factual point of view and its a much simpler issue to tackle and more important imo. On to your paragraphs:
P1 - As stated in another post Kitler is well within his rights to create a reaction thread or whatever its called, as long as its within the rules. His thread didnt break any rules and neither did the Seece thread. Whether its a necessary or unnecessary thread is a different issue, the topics themselves are within the rules imo.
And ofcourse Kitler has a console of choice, as do most posters. But what does his console of choice have to do with anything in regards to the thread? This is why i made reference to other posters like Kowen, Etho etc. They are known to have a console of choice, so naturally when they post a thread with certain content they immediately get called out, badgered, questioned and attacked. They dont usually get directly called fanboys but there are many underhanded comments made to them with regards to their bias, their motives, their "preferred consoles". People who make these type of comments usually get banned/moderated and moreso if they are posting in an aggressive tone. I equate your post to this. Your post had an aggressive tone, badgering Kitler about his "preffered console" 3 times you made that reference in your post. So yeah stating that Kitler has a prefered console is perfectly reasonable - stating it multiple times in an agressive tone with multiple implications that Kitler has been "affected" by the increased X1 sales is certainly not reasonable. In no way is it reasonable. You basically attacked Kitler's character, sincerity (which implies trolling) and motives. In NO WAY does Kitler's OP and thread provoke such a response. Especially not from a mod.
P2 - "Is it not reasonable to ask what the goal of the thread was" Its not unreasonable, but its pretty off topic. Usually if posters have issues with a thread, mods suggest to stay away or report if you feel it shouldnt be there. Responding in your way making several referals to Kitlers prefered console and saltyness is not the way to go about it and makes things worse. The thread ended up getting locked. You couldnt have escalated the situation to a worse point any more. To make things worse the people who were actually discussing the topic were perfectly fine.
P3 - Don's post was the reason the thread got locked. It was one post in the thread. He should have been moderated for that post. In no way did any other poster or the OP bring on such a comment about the sexuality of the mods. He brought this into the thread all on his own. Seece's thread about gay mods, i actually thought was nice. Back in the day we use to have community threads all the time. In any case, here is where i have an issue with the consistancy of the moderations. Seece's thread about sales was not locked, yet posters received moderations and bans. Kitlers thread gets locked, but none of the posters got moderations or bans. There must have been like over 10 moderations in the seece thread, if there was ever a reason to lock a thread it would be that (although i agree with the moderations as Seece said nothing wrong in his OP). One person was out of line in Kitlers thread, and it was clearly a joke, yet the thread got locked? Thats quite an extreme case of inconsistancy and we really need clarity on that. Thread being locked implies the creator did something wrong, but it was the poster who broke rules, why punish the creator? This is the main point im trying to raise im hope im making sense. I dont expect you to respond on this alone, but id like the views of the mods on this discrepancy.
P4 - Well i disagree that it was poor thread from the outset, and the responses in the thread were generally fine, it certainly didnt get out of hand. And yeah this is what i have a problem with. Don's post needed to be moderated and left at that.
P5 - Its not that straight forward to say "go ahead report mods" That can have serious repurcussions for the user reporting. Mods have powers and they can easily abuse that power. Mods really shouldnt be putting users in the position to report them, at the very least the mods should have an exceptional understanding of the basic rules and having a civil conversation. And set the example for the rest. This wasnt even a borderline case imo.
It would be nice if we could come to some sort of consensus around the thread locking issue. It would be great if a few other mods could weigh in on the discussion as well, keeping in mind what the actual reason for the lock was.
