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Forums - Gaming - Does MS really deserve praise for "listening" to consumers ??

Mr Puggsly said:
wick said:
Not at all.

They never listened to consumers.

They responded to the abysmal pre-order numbers.


That's semantics.

People weren't happy with the product, so they are doing what consumers want and even going beyond with the game bundles.

Semantics?  Lol, you act like those are one in the same, when they are completely different.  Doing what customers want is more along the lines of what Sony and Nintendo (not quite as often) does.  They hear customer complaints about a product and change them, even if it wouldn't really affect sales.  People complained about the price of TLOU remastered, Sony lowered the price.  When those that pre-ordered the game thought they weren't going to get a $10 refund, mainly because customer support doesn't have that authority, they complained and Sony acted quickly and passed out refunds.  There are other examples, like implementing features people really want, but I won't list them all here.

Now, here's the difference, and try to pay attention.  You see, in 2012, when rumors were starting to surface about the One/PS4, one rumor stuck out the most.  The One was rumored to require an online connection to play games.  Even that early, people started talking negatively about that, while others thought that the rumor wasn't correct, as MS wouldn't be that nuts.  THIS is the first time MS could have listened to the customers.  Then, we kept getting more and more people confirming the DRM for the One, as well as the HW not being up to snuff with the PS4.  Again, the anger started to swell into something larger.  Yet another oppurtunity for MS to listen.  Thirdly, you had the shitstorm that was the #dealwithit fiasco.  In April, Adam Orth went on Twitter to defend the online DRM, while also belittling those who found it bad policy (granted, it was in a joking manner to a friend.)  Instead of MS LISTENING to the consumer's dislike of the policiy and the way it was put forth, they just fired Adam Orth, like it was his fault people hate DRM.

Then, we have the dreaded announcement in May.  The one where they mostly focused on Kinect and TV.  After which we started to get vague confirmations about the DRM.  This is when it the anger became a storm.  People bashing the policies, many deciding to switch to the PS4.  What did MS do?  The same thing many MS fans did, ignore it.  Most likely passing it off as "Sony/Nintendo fanboys" making noise.  What MS fans, and MS, chose to ignore was the fact that it was the majority of gamers badmouthing it, not just fans of other consoles.  So, a 4th time they could have listened.  Then, came the even more dreaded E3, where MS did bring more games, but it also brought on the stomping that Sony gave them concerning their DRM and used games policies, as well as price.  You also should remember that between the time of the announcement and through E3, MS put out many statements and held many interviews that put their policies as a "way of the future" that everyone should get onboard with and, worst of all, belittled anyone who opposed or disagreed with their policies.

So, where was the part where they actually listened to gamers?  I'll tell you.  NOWHERE.  No, all they did the whole time was talk down to those who didn't like their policies.  Quite a few times getting very rude with them.  It wasn't until they actually got pre-order numbers in and realized they would have lost a SHIT load of money if they didn't do 180s out the ass that they actually decided to change the policies.  And really, even now they aren't listening.  They still have a shitty release parity clause in for their games, making many smaller devs choose the PS4.  And the policies they have changed have just been modeled off the PS4 because they see that people like them and the PS4 is selling.



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I think Microsoft listened to consumers when the consumers didn't talk with their wallets on the Titanfall release.

I just feel like they wanted to know where they went wrong. The obvious place to look for the answer was with the consumer and what they wanted. If the console was continuously selling well, I dont think they would have changed a thing! So no, they don't deserve any credit because they should have listened to the consumer from the beginning.



thismeintiel said:
Mr Puggsly said:


That's semantics.

People weren't happy with the product, so they are doing what consumers want and even going beyond with the game bundles.

Semantics?  Lol, you act like those are one in the same, when they are completely different.  Doing what customers want is more along the lines of what Sony and Nintendo (not quite as often) does.  They hear customer complaints about a product and change them, even if it wouldn't really affect sales.  People complained about the price of TLOU remastered, Sony lowered the price.  When those that pre-ordered the game thought they weren't going to get a $10 refund, mainly because customer support doesn't have that authority, they complained and Sony acted quickly and passed out refunds.  There are other examples, like implementing features people really want, but I won't list them all here.

Now, here's the difference, and try to pay attention.  You see, in 2012, when rumors were starting to surface about the One/PS4, one rumor stuck out the most.  The One was rumored to require an online connection to play games.  Even that early, people started talking negatively about that, while others thought that the rumor wasn't correct, as MS wouldn't be that nuts.  THIS is the first time MS could have listened to the customers.  Then, we kept getting more and more people confirming the DRM for the One, as well as the HW not being up to snuff with the PS4.  Again, the anger started to swell into something larger.  Yet another oppurtunity for MS to listen.  Thirdly, you had the shitstorm that was the #dealwithit fiasco.  In April, Adam Orth went on Twitter to defend the online DRM, while also belittling those who found it bad policy (granted, it was in a joking manner to a friend.)  Instead of MS LISTENING to the consumer's dislike of the policiy and the way it was put forth, they just fired Adam Orth, like it was his fault people hate DRM.

Then, we have the dreaded announcement in May.  The one where they mostly focused on Kinect and TV.  After which we started to get vauge confirmations about the DRM.  This is when it the anger became a storm.  People bashing the policies, many deciding to switch to the PS4.  What did MS do?  The same thing many MS fans did, ignore it.  Most likely passing it off as "Sony/Nintendo fanboys" making noise.  What MS fans, and MS, chose to ignore was the fact that it was the majority of gamers badmouthing it, not just fans of other consoles.  So, a 4th time they could have listened.  Then, came the even more dreaded E3, where MS did bring more games, but it also brought on the stomping that Sony gave them concerning their DRM and used games policies, as well as price.  You also should remember that between the time of the announcement and through E3, MS put out many statements and held many interviews that put their policies as a "way of the future" that everyone should get onboard with and, worst of all, belittled anyone who opposed or disagreed with their policies.

So, where was the part where they actually listened to gamers?  I'll tell you.  NOWHERE.  No, all they did the whole time was talk down to those who didn't like their policies.  Quite a few times getting very rude with them.  It wasn't until they actually got pre-order numbers in and realized they would have lost a SHIT load of money if they didn't do 180s out the ass that they actually decided to change the policies.  And really, even now they aren't listening.  They still have a shitty release parity clause in for their games, making many smaller devs choose the PS4.  Adn the policies they have changed have just been modeled off the PS4 because they see that people like them and the PS4 is selling.


Moderated - Starcraft



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vkaraujo said:
The way i see, the consumers (even the casuals) deserve to be praised for their right reaction to that BS that was XONE original plan.


I agree with this and I'm a Xbox fan.

If I praise MS for anything its going beyond my expectations to be competitive.



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IamAwsome said:
oniyide said:
IamAwsome said:

They do try to make the Xbox One a "good" console by getting exclusive DLC ,content, etc (and exclusive games). If it worked for the 360, who's to say it won't do any good for the XB1? Yes the DRM put a damper on their rep, but at least they reversed it because it shows that they DO listen to customers despite what some people believe. 

As for China, the XB1 has DRM there to curb piracy. They aren't trying to go back to the original plan, and they are better off putting DRM on the console than facing the same issues that Sony faced with the PS2 (read: piracy). It's a China thing, not a MS thing, and Nintendo took a similar measure with their iQue Player. 

if they wanted to makeit a good console they would actually make games instead of just wasting money on DLC and time exclusive nonsense, but thats just me. Now on to the topic at hand. No it doesnt show they listen to customers, because if they did they would have NEVER even tried in the first place. 

They do make games (Sunset Overdrive, Project Spark, Quantum Break, Scalebound, etc.). Just because they don't make 99 new IPs in a generation doesn't mean they don't make games. 

They put DRM on the console becuase most publishers were trying to combat used games. EA, Ubisoft, Activision, Square Enix, and Sony ALL had online passes at some point. Capcom had the whole RE: Mercenaries 3D debacle. Microsoft didn't put DRM on the XB1 for themselves, they did it because it appeared that the industry was moving in that direction for better or worse. Heck, Sony filed a patent that had to do with DRM, so they may have been planning something as well.  The E3 2013 backlash stopped that in it's tracks. 

Wow, Sony TooTM took longer than I thought to hit.  Unless I missed it.  Sony was never planning on implementing that for the PS4.  They even confirmed February that it would work "just like the PS3 does" for used games.  So, I don't know where you get this silly notion that the hate from E3 stopped them from implementing it.  Hell, they announced no DRM at E3 before MS got the brunt of the hate from their snobby interviews.

TacticalWizardQuest said:
akuseru said:
Deserve praise? Not at all. I actually cannot believe they even recieve the amount of support they are atm.

I have always wanted MS out of the gaming business because I have always felt that they have had a hidden agenda. That agenda was revealed to all of us last year and I cannot believe that people still support them and buy the console. I just wished people would stop and think before they support MS. Hopefully in the near future MS will see the One as a failure and pull out of tne industry.

IMO there is no room for MS in this business, which clearly shows by their lack of making games and not buying exclusivity. This gen will be the biggest test for them. Since they are no longer the leading platform in sales, more and more developers might rule them out or give them the bad ports we saw on PS3, then they will be forced to fochs more on building their own first party library.


Me too. I've never trusted microsoft. They seem to prefer throwing money around over making good products. I like the leading staff better at Sony and Nintendo who seem more involved, rather than just executives who see gaming as a trojan horse to advance their goals.

Yea, that does seem to be their MO.  Same happened with Zune, WebTV, Bing, Windows Phones, Surfaces, and the One.  Just put out a product, most of the time 2-3 years late to the party, then advertise the FUCK out of it and hope it sticks.  And don't get me wrong, these aren't bad products by any means.  It's just they either come too late, when others products have already filled the void, or they just don't offer anything really better than the competition.  I think this is why many investors just want them to get out of HW.  Just stick to the SW that's their bread and butter.



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Mr Puggsly said:
vkaraujo said:
The way i see, the consumers (even the casuals) deserve to be praised for their right reaction to that BS that was XONE original plan.


I agree with this and I'm a Xbox fan.

If I praise MS for anything its going beyond my expectations to be competitive.

Why not praise Sony for being competitive in the first place with the PS4, (the market seems to be praising them with high sales), for coming back from PS3 launch to global tie 4 second both while hemmoraghing money? Why not praise Nintendo for consistent dominace of the handheld market, staying relevant in the gaming industry for a decade, selling 100 million consoles in 5 years?

Being an Xbox fan doesn't mean you get to ignore the competiton when it doesn't fit your narrative.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

mornelithe said:

And, to go a step further, one could argue that the XB1's pricing is ridiculous, considering the PS4 is available and doing better graphics.


PS4 is certainly a better value than X1 in regards to specs for price. The free games with X1 helps balance that out some.

However, in the past PS1 and PS2 were more expensive than technically superior consoles. I guess Sony was screwing people back then?

The PS3 didn't do anything visually noteworthy for the price and that's why people went to 360 instead.



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Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
Mr Puggsly said:


I agree with this and I'm a Xbox fan.

If I praise MS for anything its going beyond my expectations to be competitive.

Why not praise Sony for being competitive in the first place with the PS4, (the market seems to be praising them with high sales), for coming back from PS3 launch to global tie 4 second both while hemmoraghing money? Why not praise Nintendo for consistent dominace of the handheld market, staying relevant in the gaming industry for a decade, selling 100 million consoles in 5 years?

Being an Xbox fan doesn't mean you get to ignore the competiton when it doesn't fit your narrative.

I do.

I don't ignore the competition. Even before launch I said Sony is making all the right moves.

They fucked up pretty bad in the 7th gen. They needed to redeem themselves and they did with PS4.



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Mr Puggsly said:
thismeintiel said:
Mr Puggsly said:


That's semantics.

People weren't happy with the product, so they are doing what consumers want and even going beyond with the game bundles.

Semantics?  Lol, you act like those are one in the same, when they are completely different.  Doing what customers want is more along the lines of what Sony and Nintendo (not quite as often) does.  They hear customer complaints about a product and change them, even if it wouldn't really affect sales.  People complained about the price of TLOU remastered, Sony lowered the price.  When those that pre-ordered the game thought they weren't going to get a $10 refund, mainly because customer support doesn't have that authority, they complained and Sony acted quickly and passed out refunds.  There are other examples, like implementing features people really want, but I won't list them all here.

Now, here's the difference, and try to pay attention.  You see, in 2012, when rumors were starting to surface about the One/PS4, one rumor stuck out the most.  The One was rumored to require an online connection to play games.  Even that early, people started talking negatively about that, while others thought that the rumor wasn't correct, as MS wouldn't be that nuts.  THIS is the first time MS could have listened to the customers.  Then, we kept getting more and more people confirming the DRM for the One, as well as the HW not being up to snuff with the PS4.  Again, the anger started to swell into something larger.  Yet another oppurtunity for MS to listen.  Thirdly, you had the shitstorm that was the #dealwithit fiasco.  In April, Adam Orth went on Twitter to defend the online DRM, while also belittling those who found it bad policy (granted, it was in a joking manner to a friend.)  Instead of MS LISTENING to the consumer's dislike of the policiy and the way it was put forth, they just fired Adam Orth, like it was his fault people hate DRM.

Then, we have the dreaded announcement in May.  The one where they mostly focused on Kinect and TV.  After which we started to get vauge confirmations about the DRM.  This is when it the anger became a storm.  People bashing the policies, many deciding to switch to the PS4.  What did MS do?  The same thing many MS fans did, ignore it.  Most likely passing it off as "Sony/Nintendo fanboys" making noise.  What MS fans, and MS, chose to ignore was the fact that it was the majority of gamers badmouthing it, not just fans of other consoles.  So, a 4th time they could have listened.  Then, came the even more dreaded E3, where MS did bring more games, but it also brought on the stomping that Sony gave them concerning their DRM and used games policies, as well as price.  You also should remember that between the time of the announcement and through E3, MS put out many statements and held many interviews that put their policies as a "way of the future" that everyone should get onboard with and, worst of all, belittled anyone who opposed or disagreed with their policies.

So, where was the part where they actually listened to gamers?  I'll tell you.  NOWHERE.  No, all they did the whole time was talk down to those who didn't like their policies.  Quite a few times getting very rude with them.  It wasn't until they actually got pre-order numbers in and realized they would have lost a SHIT load of money if they didn't do 180s out the ass that they actually decided to change the policies.  And really, even now they aren't listening.  They still have a shitty release parity clause in for their games, making many smaller devs choose the PS4.  Adn the policies they have changed have just been modeled off the PS4 because they see that people like them and the PS4 is selling.


Lol, of course not.  Just like back when the rumors were swarming, and the anger was flying, ignore what's right in your face.  All I know is this gen is going to be a fun one. 



thismeintiel said:

 

TacticalWizardQuest said:


Me too. I've never trusted microsoft. They seem to prefer throwing money around over making good products. I like the leading staff better at Sony and Nintendo who seem more involved, rather than just executives who see gaming as a trojan horse to advance their goals.

Yea, that does seem to be their MO.  Same happened with Zune, WebTV, Bing, Windows Phones, Surfaces, and the One.  Just put out a product, most of the time 2-3 years late to the party, then advertize the FUCK out of it and hope it sticks.  And don't get me wrong, these aren't bad products by any means.  It's just they either come too late, when others products have already filled the void, or they just don't offer anything really better than the competition.  I think this is why many investors just want them to get out of HW.  Just stick to the SW that's their bread and butter.

The Xbox inparticular did fill a void. The OG Xbox brought gaming experiences to a home console PS2 and Gamecube weren't offering.

The Xbox 360 filled the void by a being a reasonably priced console that offered visuals at par with PS3. The 7th gen would have been less interesting without MS because Sony would have been less competitive for the core audience.

Now in the 8th gen, the X1 is yet again forcing Sony to be competitive. While the X1 is technically inferior its still getting great exclusives that Sony is struggling to match thus far.



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