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Forums - Gaming - Microsoft Mocks Sony With "Destiny Fragrance"

starcraft said:
wary-wallaroo said:
Haha, wow. Stop trying to make this happen MS, it's not going to happen.

You realize it is happening right? The game is multiplatform.

@ others in this thread.

Microsoft has made a joke. Maybe you find it funny, maybe you don't. Irrespective it is indicative of a sense of humour, talent for marketing, and the ongoing attempt by all players to promote their wares.

Unless someone wants to present information on contracts between Activision and Microsoft or Sony and Microsoft that indicates this is in some way a violation, lets stop being 'salty' that Microsoft has found an innovative way around Sony's paid arrangement with Activision. I am sure that Microsoft consulted its team of very expensive lawyers in formulating this campaign.

While no one has direct access to any actual contract information, it is reported that only Sony had the rights to advertise the game. There is also the fact that the ad was removed only a few short hours after it was put up. If this truly was an "innovative ad campaign" and not a completely irresponsible and potentially illegal(as many have proved already) move that would damage the already strained relationship between Activision/Bungie and MS then they would have left the ad up. Not only that but they would have worked to greatly increase exposure to that ad if it was so innovative and not a huge bone headed mistake. Instead fearing legal action and damage their business relationships they removed the Ad in all forms after only a few short hours.'

Can you explain that? To many here that is clearly evidence that they over stepped their bounds, realized they made a huge mistake and quickly acted to rectify it before more very real damage was done.



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Lemme get this straight. M$, one of the most aggressive companies in terms defending its IP rights goes ahead and violates another company's IP rights and people think it's clever and cute?

SMFH.



Nicklesbe said:
starcraft said:
wary-wallaroo said:
Haha, wow. Stop trying to make this happen MS, it's not going to happen.

You realize it is happening right? The game is multiplatform.

@ others in this thread.

Microsoft has made a joke. Maybe you find it funny, maybe you don't. Irrespective it is indicative of a sense of humour, talent for marketing, and the ongoing attempt by all players to promote their wares.

Unless someone wants to present information on contracts between Activision and Microsoft or Sony and Microsoft that indicates this is in some way a violation, lets stop being 'salty' that Microsoft has found an innovative way around Sony's paid arrangement with Activision. I am sure that Microsoft consulted its team of very expensive lawyers in formulating this campaign.

While no one has direct access to any actual contract information, it is reported that only Sony had the rights to advertise the game. There is also the fact that the ad was removed only a few short hours after it was put up. If this truly was an "innovative ad campaign" and not a completely irresponsible and potentially illegal(as many have proved already) move that would damage the already strained relationship between Activision/Bungie and MS then they would have left the ad up. Not only that but they would have worked to greatly increase exposure to that ad if it was so innovative and not a huge bone headed mistake. Instead fearing legal action and damage their business relationships they removed the Ad in all forms after only a few short hours.'

Can you explain that? To many here that is clearly evidence that they over stepped their bounds, realized they made a huge mistake and quickly acted to rectify it before more very real damage was done.

This. If they consulted their lawyers first, there would have been no ad.  Or if there was, they would have not taken it down so quickly.  In truth, the only one being salty here is MS.  They don't like that Sony gave them a taste of their own medicine, and with one of the largest games this year.



thismeintiel said:

This. If they consulted their lawyers first, there would have been no ad.  Or if there was, they would have not taken it down so quickly.  In truth, the only one being salty here is MS.  They don't like that Sony gave them a taste of their own medicine, and with one of the largest games this year.


I actually believe that they did consult their lawyers. Their lawyers probably advised that the worst that could happen here would be a C&D order being that I'm sure they know that Activision would be reluctant to prosecute any further than that.

It's not as though the legality of an act has stopped M$ in the past....



starcraft said:
wary-wallaroo said:
Haha, wow. Stop trying to make this happen MS, it's not going to happen.

You realize it is happening right? The game is multiplatform.

@ others in this thread.

Microsoft has made a joke. Maybe you find it funny, maybe you don't. Irrespective it is indicative of a sense of humour, talent for marketing, and the ongoing attempt by all players to promote their wares.

Unless someone wants to present information on contracts between Activision and Microsoft or Sony and Microsoft that indicates this is in some way a violation, lets stop being 'salty' that Microsoft has found an innovative way around Sony's paid arrangement with Activision. I am sure that Microsoft consulted its team of very expensive lawyers in formulating this campaign.

You're displaying an uncharacteristic ignorance. Destiny is a trademarked (or copyrighted) name for the FPS game that is Destiny. That means the only people who can use Destiny to promote the Destiny game are those to whom Acti gives permission. MS was not given permission, hence MS infringed on Acti/Bungie's trademark/copyright. You don't need to see an exclusive advertising contract to know this, you simply need to know what a dev/publisher typically copyrights and trademarks about the games they publish/make. Pretty basic stuff really. So MS didn't find an innovative way around the advertising arrangment because they actually broke the law in what they did. You should stop trying to claim they did, because that's perpetuation false information and as a mod you should not be doing that, especially by, at the same time, claiming people are being salty about something that MS actually did wrong. Mods have warned people in other threads about calling people salty, so I think it's pretty off for a mod to be using the term even if it's addressed to a general "@ others" rather than a specific person.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

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Josiah said:
binary solo said:
Josiah said:
binary solo said:
Josiah said:
binary solo said:

Not so much because of any harm that the ad might do (which is no harm at all really in this case)

It did a significant amount of damage to marketing contracts.  Publishers make a lot of money from these contracts.  If loopholes arise, the value diminishes, and the developer makes less money from such deals in the future.

This is a huge deal to any publisher.  They want to protect their imediate and future income.  If Microsoft is successful without an recoil and Sony follows, all publishers have a lot of $$$ to lose in the future.  I bet you none of them want that.

That's potential future harm to the value of future exclusive advertising contracts. But basically no direct harm done here to Acti/bungie. And I don't think Sony would actually halve a case here again MS, because MS didn't breech any Sony trademark, they breeched Bungie/Acti trademark. So, the only recourse Sony would have would be to sue Activision for not sueing MS for breech of trademark. But why would Sony do that? but it's best for all concerned not to create bad blood so MS really had to take the ad down to keep things cool.


Not true.  It breaks contract.  Usually Sony in this case would have a stipulation that if contract is broken they pay less or get an additional benefit.

Sony absolutely has a case, that's why Microsoft was forced to take it down.  The damage from the media picking up on it, is not down.  This is part of where the issue lies.  It'll be interesting to see what results from this.

Microsoft is not a party to the contract, they didn't sign anything. The contract is between Sony and Acti and SOny can only take action against Acti. Acti is the owner (or Bungie is) of the Destiny trademark and copyright, and it is the infringement on the Destiny trademark without permission which MS did, and only Acti can enforce its trademark rights. Sony can't enforce trademark rights on behalf of Acti. So Sony has no legal recourse directly against MS, only Acti does.

You really don't think Activition is pissed?  You really think Microsoft can do whatever they want to somone elses propertly?  I see bankruptcy in your future.

As I said these contracts usually have stipulations that if broken require additional benefits like a discount or additional content.  Sony is deffinatly getting something from this.

Have you read what I wrote? Where did I say MS can get away with infringing on someone's IP? I said it's not worth causing a stink about and that since sensible MS heads got the ad taken down there's no benefit to Acti in taking any action. They might be pissed, but there's no point in them getting pissy at MS.

Yes, contracts have stipulations if conditions are broken, but, and read this very carefully, MS is not a party to the Destiny exclusive advertising arrangement contract. Therefore nothing MS does of its own accord can be taken as a breech of contract. Only actions (or inactions) by Sony or Acti/Destiny can cause the terms of a contract to be broken and hence for contracual remedies to be brought into force. If MS did not take the ad down, and Acti did nothing to enforce it's ownership rights, then Sony would have a basis to claim a contractual breech because Acti did not protect Sony's interests, and hence Sony would be entitled to some form of redress. But the ad got taken down (whether or not Acti did anything to bring that about it) so now Sony has no claim. Any clause in a contract which says if MS does something naughty then Acti has to give some additional benefit to+- Sony would more than likely be unenforceable in court, because controlling MS's decisions is not within Acti's power, and no contract can force you to do something that is not within your power. Asserting their trademark rights after a violation has occurred is within Acti's power, so once someone has done something naughty then the relevant party to the contract could be forced to act according to the terms of the contract.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

starcraft said:
wary-wallaroo said:
Haha, wow. Stop trying to make this happen MS, it's not going to happen.

You realize it is happening right? The game is multiplatform.

@ others in this thread.

Microsoft has made a joke. Maybe you find it funny, maybe you don't. Irrespective it is indicative of a sense of humour, talent for marketing, and the ongoing attempt by all players to promote their wares.

Unless someone wants to present information on contracts between Activision and Microsoft or Sony and Microsoft that indicates this is in some way a violation, lets stop being 'salty' that Microsoft has found an innovative way around Sony's paid arrangement with Activision. I am sure that Microsoft consulted its team of very expensive lawyers in formulating this campaign.

They shut it off. Time to find new lawyers



binary solo said:
starcraft said:
wary-wallaroo said:
Haha, wow. Stop trying to make this happen MS, it's not going to happen.

You realize it is happening right? The game is multiplatform.

@ others in this thread.

Microsoft has made a joke. Maybe you find it funny, maybe you don't. Irrespective it is indicative of a sense of humour, talent for marketing, and the ongoing attempt by all players to promote their wares.

Unless someone wants to present information on contracts between Activision and Microsoft or Sony and Microsoft that indicates this is in some way a violation, lets stop being 'salty' that Microsoft has found an innovative way around Sony's paid arrangement with Activision. I am sure that Microsoft consulted its team of very expensive lawyers in formulating this campaign.

You're displaying an uncharacteristic ignorance. Destiny is a trademarked (or copyrighted) name for the FPS game that is Destiny. That means the only people who can use Destiny to promote the Destiny game are those to whom Acti gives permission. MS was not given permission, hence MS infringed on Acti/Bungie's trademark/copyright. You don't need to see an exclusive advertising contract to know this, you simply need to know what a dev/publisher typically copyrights and trademarks about the games they publish/make. Pretty basic stuff really. So MS didn't find an innovative way around the advertising arrangment because they actually broke the law in what they did. You should stop trying to claim they did, because that's perpetuation false information and as a mod you should not be doing that, especially by, at the same time, claiming people are being salty about something that MS actually did wrong. Mods have warned people in other threads about calling people salty, so I think it's pretty off for a mod to be using the term even if it's addressed to a general "@ others" rather than a specific person.

Only going to respond to one of you!

Of those who have responded to me, including yourself, I am the only one that appears not to have drawn a conclusion from zero information. I would think very little about that is ignorant. Multiple people in this thread have speculated ridiculously, including the absurd notion that Activision might attempt to sue Microsoft for this brief advertisement.

People always seem to assume rank stupidity in the actions of major games companies, as though they don't spend millions of dollars retaining highly intelligent people to orchestrate their campaigns. Let me be clear. I am fully aware that this advertisement could, conceivably, be considered a violation of an agreement between Sony and Activision - I am saying that in this instance, it would be irrelevant. There is zero certainty that a specific *written* agreement exists between Activision and Microsoft forbidding advertising of Destiny. But lets say, for a moment, that it does. What exactly do you think are the ramifications of this violation (which Microsoft would have known the ins and outs of far better than we do)? Activision has almost *no* incentive to enforce their rights, as Microsoft is advertising their game. Sony will know better than to take public action and appear petty. And Microsoft has, for the cost of perhaps 1 hour's graphic design work, and an hour's legal consultation, generated huge discussion online about the fact Destiny is on their platform. The argument one *might* make is that Microsoft risks damaging their relationship with Activision if Sony has a go at Activision over this privately. But thats something we have even less information on than the legal ramifcations of this action.
Technical written civil law is only as effective as it is enforceable, and only enforceable where there is an economic incentive to do so. As you said, pretty basic stuff really.
As for salty. The reason I used inflection marks is precisely because people have inanely used the word previously in this thread. We're in agreement on its uselessness - but reading back I didn't make that sufficiently clear, sorry.


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This is getting good! :D



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Condemn TLOU:R as an evil moneygrab.

NOT condemn M$ for breaking the law and infringing on another's rights.

Glad you got your values straight.