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Forums - Gaming - A major part of the digital/physical debate that people forget

True but I still think physical is safer.



    

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VanceIX said:
prayformojo said:
VanceIX said:

 

I meant own the game digitally like a download, not stream.

And yeah, I'm not that paranoid. I've had digital games with Steam for years and it's been fine, along with apps/music from both Google and Apple. I still have access to all my purchases. I also have 2 Vitas, and since most of my collection is digital on those, I can have both with the same games at the same time.

Even with digital, you lose SOME control. As far as that goes, it's always going to be physical>digital>streaming. Having said that, with PS Now, EA Access etc, it's just a matter of time before streaming takes over and digital falls by the way side. When that happens, we're all screwed.



burninmylight said:
Mikeanheath said:

I think the issue is different with music and games, as music files can be played on all kinds of devices. Certain games are created for a platform and once that platform is gone you might not get to play that game again unless they port it to the console you're using now. I have tons of digital games on ps3, take specifically Super Stardust HD. I can't play that on my ps4. The cool thing about old consoles before all the digital stuff started happening. I can take my old Nintendo, Genesis, Playstation, etc and still play those games today. If for whatever reason one of the systems eventually breaks down I should be able to find another one online and I still have my games collection to play. If you're all digital once your system dies of old age, it's over. Eventually my ps3 is gonna die, and who knows how long Sony will have these games to download.

Another thing with digital is we end up having to pay for the same game over and over again as a new platform comes out. All the old games on Nintendo/Sony platforms on their online store. We might have bought these games years ago, but play them again on a new console(without backwards compatability) we have to buy them again even though we have them on physical disc/cartridge.


You can play your downloaded Wii Games on your Wii U just fine. Same thing with DSi:3DS. Games that you bought for Wii that get released for the Wii U VC require a small upgrade fee, but you can otherwise skip it and continue to play your games in Wii mode. I can't speak for the other consoles.

I don't see why you think this is only a digital problem. Can you take PS360 discs and play them on the PS4/X1? Or a disc from any console and play it on another console two generations later?

That's what I'm getting at, with going only digital. My ps3 games I have on disc should last my whole life time. I should always be able to find a ps3 should my system fail, and it will eventually, my fat 60gig did. If I were all digital, who knows how long Sony will have those games online to download. Not to mention the time it would take to download everything again, should it be possible to get it all.



KylieDog said:
VanceIX said:

A lot of people say that the best reason to go physical is that you actually own the game. That's not true. You own the disc itself, but the game is licensed to you, just like digital games. Under the law, there is almost no difference in ownership.

That being said, no one is coming to take away your rights to play your discs. At the same time, however, that generally doesn't happen with digital games either unless you seriously fuck up.

I'm not saying that everyone should up and quit physical and buy digital only, just saying that the concept of "ownership" is really not that different between the two, as far as the law is concerned. 


In EU you own the data for that one copy on the disc, can modify it or create personal use copies as you please, doesn't matter the EULA says you can't.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/gamesblog/2012/jul/05/eu-used-digital-games-market

What this means is that, under EU law, software companies have no right to prevent users from selling their digital downloads to others; effectively, the software distributor's rights to control distribution are exhausted after the first sale.



When they say you own a license of the physical copy, they mean that all the content is owned by another person or company and making a reproduction of that content or making a profit(rentals) without the creator's consent is illegal, not that you don't own the item. That license may be sold(transferred) by you, the current owner, the next owner, and so on.

Digital licenses can't be resold, the company that sold you the digital license isn't required to allow you to download multiple times although most do, and they can pull services for that game at anytime. PSN and XBL aren't going to be around forever. Or if they are around for as long as we're alive, doesn't mean that the content will be available for the older consoles. You can't download any of the DLC that you purchased on the original Xbox anymore and you can't play online. Just wait until that happens to the 360, PS3, etc. It also has in a sense with some games being pulled off XBL and PSN.. You have no security even with GOG, Steam, and other digital markets. If you read their policies on purchasing digital you'd know this.

Digital content can be taken away at anytime and unless we download and create back ups we can't do anything about it.



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You are right, from a legal point of view.
But in reality, nobody will ever come to take away my copy of FF7 for the original PSone, I can play it wherever I want and whenever I want. For digital, I cant for example take it to my friends house, lend it, give it as a gift to whoever I want, or sell it.

As I said before, we should always have the two option, and I would agree if they wanted us to pay more for the physical version. Like, $50 for RE HD (that will be released) digital and $60 if you want to buy it directly from Capcom website. It is fair in my opinion.



VanceIX said:
Intrinsic said:
i am digital only so far this gen, but what you are saying though technically correct, isn't entirely true.

key difference is in change of ownership. by law nothing stops you from selling your physical games or buying used physical games.

this is practically impossible with digital games. being that with digital while you own the license to the game, you lack the means to transfer that license to anyone you want. Now if we had a way to sell or transfer our digital licenses at any price we wanted.. then yeah, there really would be no difference owning the two.

A simple fic for this would be for sony/ms/nintendo to have a fixed license transfer fee, say $10 so anyone can transfer ownership of their digital games. So whatever you add to that $10 goes into your account. eg. you sell a game you own for $20, they take $10 and you get credited $10.

Change in ownership, yes, you are correct. In terms of legal ownership of the game itself, no one has that. That is the point I'm making. Some people believe owning the physical disc means you own the game itself, while owning a digital copy means it's only licensed to you. No, either way it is licensed to you. That's my point.


I never belived that. What I own with the disc is protection of issues that can happen in the future. I keep my consoles. And replay my games all the time. Will I be able to play my copy of a digital game 20 years from now or not? On the same hardware. And not being rebought over and over again. That is the reason people care about phsycial. If that answer becomes a no. Then the only other alternative is the hack the old system and pirate the game. The act of owning the property (not the games IP) is better, to me, then a file. Regardless of the tecnicality of the law. It's the loss of personal control, in every aspect, over said items that people want.

No ones refuting that we don't own the IP of the game. Games for Windows Live is a perfect example of things I don't want to deal with. It failed. But my games like Just Cause 2, Super Street Fighter 4 AE, and GTA IV can all be screwed because of this problem. Luckly Steam exsists to save people. If they didn't, or they failed at some point too, I'd have to pirate my non functional games. But again, I don't want to rely on things I can't control.



There is a thread on here about 92% ofcPC games being sold digitally. I understand why most people here cling to physical copies, your explanations are valid, but I also believe that you are in an ever shrinking minority.
Digital console games are growing, and toward the end of this generation, in some 5 years from now, most console gamers will move on to the digital, same as they moved on with music, films and series.

Sure, some of you will still insist on buying a disc, but they will slowly become a niche market, probably existing only as collector editions and more expensive than digital download (same as vynil as someone brought it up).

People on gaming forums are not representative of a majority, but are a tiny minority of gamers and console owners. Most gamers find games disposable in the same manner as Netflix movies or Spotify music - download, play, delete, move on...



Burek said:
There is a thread on here about 92% ofcPC games being sold digitally. I understand why most people here cling to physical copies, your explanations are valid, but I also believe that you are in an ever shrinking minority.
Digital console games are growing, and toward the end of this generation, in some 5 years from now, most console gamers will move on to the digital, same as they moved on with music, films and series.

Sure, some of you will still insist on buying a disc, but they will slowly become a niche market, probably existing only as collector editions and more expensive than digital download (same as vynil as someone brought it up).

People on gaming forums are not representative of a majority, but are a tiny minority of gamers and console owners. Most gamers find games disposable in the same manner as Netflix movies or Spotify music - download, play, delete, move on...

If it exists, then I wouldn't care if it's niche. I pay the higher price to use what I want. And everyone that wants digital goes on. Problem for either side, no.



archer9234 said:
VanceIX said:
Intrinsic said:
i am digital only so far this gen, but what you are saying though technically correct, isn't entirely true.

key difference is in change of ownership. by law nothing stops you from selling your physical games or buying used physical games.

this is practically impossible with digital games. being that with digital while you own the license to the game, you lack the means to transfer that license to anyone you want. Now if we had a way to sell or transfer our digital licenses at any price we wanted.. then yeah, there really would be no difference owning the two.

A simple fic for this would be for sony/ms/nintendo to have a fixed license transfer fee, say $10 so anyone can transfer ownership of their digital games. So whatever you add to that $10 goes into your account. eg. you sell a game you own for $20, they take $10 and you get credited $10.

Change in ownership, yes, you are correct. In terms of legal ownership of the game itself, no one has that. That is the point I'm making. Some people believe owning the physical disc means you own the game itself, while owning a digital copy means it's only licensed to you. No, either way it is licensed to you. That's my point.


I never belived that. What I own with the disc is protection of issues that can happen in the future. I keep my consoles. And replay my games all the time. Will I be able to play my copy of a digital game 20 years from now or not? On the same hardware. And not being rebought over and over again. That is the reason people care about phsycial. If that answer becomes a no. Then the only other alternative is the hack the old system and pirate the game. The act of owning the property (not the games IP) is better, to me, then a file. Regardless of the tecnicality of the law. It's the loss of personal control, in every aspect, over said items that people want.

No ones refuting that we don't own the IP of the game. Games for Windows Live is a perfect example of things I don't want to deal with. It failed. But my games like Just Cause 2, Super Street Fighter 4 AE, and GTA IV can all be screwed because of this problem. Luckly Steam exsists to save people. If they didn't, or they failed at some point too, I'd have to pirate my non functional games. But again, I don't want to rely on things I can't control.

You can still play games from Steam that came out over a decade ago, and I doubt that'll change any time soon. Ditto for iTunes. I've never lost a purchase on Google Play or Amazon Kindle either.

So yes, there is a very, very good chance that your purchases will be secure. Not only that, but you can put that purchase on multiple consoles.



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