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Forums - Microsoft - Microsoft admits to dodging $29B in taxes. Yes, billion with a B.

Baalzamon said:
overman1 said:

Do you know the amount of tax cut these fuckers get? 

The amount they take out of the country?

the profits they make from outsourcing jobs to less priviledged countries? 

Do you know that the average investor's cut NEVER changes regardless of what the company performs?

What the hell do you think happened to GM in 2008? 

Who had to bail them out? Too big to fail? that ever rings a bell?

Bain Capital who recieves a tax cut of over 30% in 2011? Where they hell do you think they ship their money too?

Do you honestly think Big Business in the America right now gives a flying f!@# about the average citizen?

the goverment is definitely not perfect but, Jesus Christ, dont think all these CEO arent think about twisting every last dime off us...

I don't see a single valid reason in there for why corporations should be taxed. The only slightly justified one is the bailout, but the federal government actually MADE money on that, so that kinda makes it a moot point.

Isn't the justification of a tax based on the idea that you have the opportunity to vote? Because I don't care how much money corporations throw at a political agenda, they still can't actually vote.

That put aside, what do you think would happen if corporations weren't taxed? I'll give you a hint, their net income would be higher. And when a corporation has higher net income, investors in the corporation make more money. When these investors make more money, they then have to pay taxes on that money (and I do believe capital gains should be taxed at the same rate as regular income assuming no corporate taxes).

Getting rid of corporate taxes does not give the government any less money...at all.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/20/microsoft-taxes-profits-offshore_n_1901398.html

Yet they still find enough for lobbiest and legal brides...

this country isnt going anyway with money in politics

The coporations are making more than enough as it is. All this is happening while the average wage remain stagnant since the 1990s. 

Productivity in the US rose 400% since 1970. 400% and the average american has absolutely nothing to show for this. A study showed that the salary gap between a base worker and a CEO has risen from 25:1 to over 130:1. THE FUCK?

How anyone who defend these fuckers is beyond me. Microsoft, Apple, JP fucking Morgan Chase still recieved a tax cut last year...JP Morgan laid off thousands less than 6 months after this and recieved goverment assistance still because they are "too big to fail" The CEO still makes the same shit and the investors still recieve the same cut as they did the previous year. 



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Baalzamon said:

I don't see a single valid reason in there for why corporations should be taxed.

that's easy

because companies depend on all the factors (infrastructure, education, health system, ..) a country has in place, they must contribute to the costs of these

and no, the money isn't sure to go the country/state it's ment to be through shareholders - rich guys often live (and are taxed, if they decide to pay taxes) where other rich guys live, so that state or country is sucking the others dry in income, if you have your way



Smart Move.

Corporations practice Tax EvasionTax Avoidance in order to be more lucrative.

Tax EvasionTax Avoidance  is not a crime, Tax AvoidanceTax Evasion is.

Its the equivalent of spamming agility and double team and x-agilities so you never get hit.

edit: corrected.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Baalzamon said:
overman1 said:

Do you know the amount of tax cut these fuckers get? 

The amount they take out of the country?

the profits they make from outsourcing jobs to less priviledged countries? 

Do you know that the average investor's cut NEVER changes regardless of what the company performs?

What the hell do you think happened to GM in 2008? 

Who had to bail them out? Too big to fail? that ever rings a bell?

Bain Capital who recieves a tax cut of over 30% in 2011? Where they hell do you think they ship their money too?

Do you honestly think Big Business in the America right now gives a flying f!@# about the average citizen?

the goverment is definitely not perfect but, Jesus Christ, dont think all these CEO arent think about twisting every last dime off us...

I don't see a single valid reason in there for why corporations should be taxed. The only slightly justified one is the bailout, but the federal government actually MADE money on that, so that kinda makes it a moot point.

Isn't the justification of a tax based on the idea that you have the opportunity to vote? Because I don't care how much money corporations throw at a political agenda, they still can't actually vote.

That put aside, what do you think would happen if corporations weren't taxed? I'll give you a hint, their net income would be higher. And when a corporation has higher net income, investors in the corporation make more money. When these investors make more money, they then have to pay taxes on that money (and I do believe capital gains should be taxed at the same rate as regular income assuming no corporate taxes).

Getting rid of corporate taxes does not give the government any less money...at all.

I actually believe that corporations shouldnt pay taxes, because taxes ultimately go back to consumers, but and it is a big but. I wont support this because I dont believe 1 iota that corporations would pass on the savings to consumers or pay there employees higher wages. They would simply boost executive salaries, bonuses, benefits and perks. Then pass on to investors.  All at the same time spending more money on lobbyists to influence tax law so the same people they are boosting incomes would ultimately have more tax cuts.



Its libraries that sell systems not a single game.

Burek said:

You comment a lot, but you really don't know much, do you?

If I were you, I'd read up on things you write about, this way you're just embarassing yourself on a daily basis.

I'm sure you are familiar with the beginnings of the United States, no? Taxation without representation, etc. The idea being that it was unfair we were being taxed when we had absolutely no say in voting of the elections. Well, fortunately we made a country where that was no longer the case (to a certain degree, we still have the bogus electoral college system, but generally speaking, your vote counts). So citizens are now able to vote, and that justifies us being able to be taxed.

Seems to me corporations can't vote, however. Seems to me they are being taxed without representation.

Call corporations a US resident, I don't really care. I know what they are technically called.

But a name is just that, and in my mind, a corporation isn't SHIT until they get the same rights as other US residents.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

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thx1139 said:
This isnt just sales made in other countries. A little explanation when profit is made in another country the tax on that profit is deducted from what the tax is in the US. So if profit is $100 and company pays $10 in tax to another country and the tax would have been $20 in the US then the company pays $10 more in tax when the money is repatriated.

OK so now what a lot of companies do. I dont know if MS does this, but I believe Apple does. A company makes a product in very low wage country like China. Then has a holding company in say the Cayman Islands or Ireland that has very low tax rate. The company sells the product made in China to the holding Company in the Cayman Islands for large profit. Then the company in the Cayman Islands sells the product to the main company in the US to sell to the US consumer. They sell the product at nearly the retail price. So now little profit on the actual sale to the consumer. The profit goes to the holding company in the Cayman Islands which has little tax.

Example: Product made in China for $10 for the holding company. The holding company sells to US company for $95. US company sells to consumer for $100. So the holding company makes $85 in profit. US company makes $5 in profit. Tax in holding company country is basically nothing. Tax in US is on $5 profit. Money sits offshore. Companies lobby to get repatriation holiday to get money back in US. Think last time the tax % was 10% rather then top rate of 35%.


and they keep all that money off shore. Companies like this (just like GM) then get very careless with their base in the home country and when they get into trouble, guess who comes to bail their ass out? the big bad goverment. 

All the while, they still have their money offshore, they CEO dont get fired, the shareholders still get thier usual profit cut and people lose their jobs. Not saying all U.S business do this but now this is very common now in America. 



thx1139 said:
Baalzamon said:
overman1 said:

Do you know the amount of tax cut these fuckers get? 

The amount they take out of the country?

the profits they make from outsourcing jobs to less priviledged countries? 

Do you know that the average investor's cut NEVER changes regardless of what the company performs?

What the hell do you think happened to GM in 2008? 

Who had to bail them out? Too big to fail? that ever rings a bell?

Bain Capital who recieves a tax cut of over 30% in 2011? Where they hell do you think they ship their money too?

Do you honestly think Big Business in the America right now gives a flying f!@# about the average citizen?

the goverment is definitely not perfect but, Jesus Christ, dont think all these CEO arent think about twisting every last dime off us...

I don't see a single valid reason in there for why corporations should be taxed. The only slightly justified one is the bailout, but the federal government actually MADE money on that, so that kinda makes it a moot point.

Isn't the justification of a tax based on the idea that you have the opportunity to vote? Because I don't care how much money corporations throw at a political agenda, they still can't actually vote.

That put aside, what do you think would happen if corporations weren't taxed? I'll give you a hint, their net income would be higher. And when a corporation has higher net income, investors in the corporation make more money. When these investors make more money, they then have to pay taxes on that money (and I do believe capital gains should be taxed at the same rate as regular income assuming no corporate taxes).

Getting rid of corporate taxes does not give the government any less money...at all.

I actually believe that corporations shouldnt pay taxes, because taxes ultimately go back to consumers, but and it is a big but. I wont support this because I dont believe 1 iota that corporations would pass on the savings to consumers or pay there employees higher wages. They would simply boost executive salaries, bonuses, benefits and perks. Then pass on to investors.  All at the same time spending more money on lobbyists to influence tax law so the same people they are boosting incomes would ultimately have more tax cuts.

All Entities pay taxes, as long as they are in a commonwealth.

Corporations are legally required to prioritize the bottom line and tax evasion is an easy and effective way to do so.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Lafiel said:
Baalzamon said:

I don't see a single valid reason in there for why corporations should be taxed.

that's easy

because companies depend on all the factors (infrastructure, education, health system, ..) a country has in place, they must contribute to the costs of these

and no, the money isn't sure to go the country/state it's ment to be through shareholders - rich guys often live (and are taxed, if they decide to pay taxes) where other rich guys live, so that state or country is sucking the others dry in income, if you have your way


So, the USA should tax companies that use foreign workers hat are already taxed for "infrastructure, education, health system" in their´s respective countries?



Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
thx1139 said:
Baalzamon said:
overman1 said:

Do you know the amount of tax cut these fuckers get? 

The amount they take out of the country?

the profits they make from outsourcing jobs to less priviledged countries? 

Do you know that the average investor's cut NEVER changes regardless of what the company performs?

What the hell do you think happened to GM in 2008? 

Who had to bail them out? Too big to fail? that ever rings a bell?

Bain Capital who recieves a tax cut of over 30% in 2011? Where they hell do you think they ship their money too?

Do you honestly think Big Business in the America right now gives a flying f!@# about the average citizen?

the goverment is definitely not perfect but, Jesus Christ, dont think all these CEO arent think about twisting every last dime off us...

I don't see a single valid reason in there for why corporations should be taxed. The only slightly justified one is the bailout, but the federal government actually MADE money on that, so that kinda makes it a moot point.

Isn't the justification of a tax based on the idea that you have the opportunity to vote? Because I don't care how much money corporations throw at a political agenda, they still can't actually vote.

That put aside, what do you think would happen if corporations weren't taxed? I'll give you a hint, their net income would be higher. And when a corporation has higher net income, investors in the corporation make more money. When these investors make more money, they then have to pay taxes on that money (and I do believe capital gains should be taxed at the same rate as regular income assuming no corporate taxes).

Getting rid of corporate taxes does not give the government any less money...at all.

I actually believe that corporations shouldnt pay taxes, because taxes ultimately go back to consumers, but and it is a big but. I wont support this because I dont believe 1 iota that corporations would pass on the savings to consumers or pay there employees higher wages. They would simply boost executive salaries, bonuses, benefits and perks. Then pass on to investors.  All at the same time spending more money on lobbyists to influence tax law so the same people they are boosting incomes would ultimately have more tax cuts.

All Entities pay taxes, as long as they are in a commonwealth.

Corporations are legally required to prioritize the bottom line and tax evasion is an easy and effective way to do so.


Exactly, 

In the US corporations arte classified as "people" (fucking stupid) so yes they should pay taxes. 



Baalzamon said:
Burek said:

You comment a lot, but you really don't know much, do you?

If I were you, I'd read up on things you write about, this way you're just embarassing yourself on a daily basis.

I'm sure you are familiar with the beginnings of the United States, no? Taxation without representation, etc. The idea being that it was unfair we were being taxed when we had absolutely no say in voting of the elections. Well, fortunately we made a country where that was no longer the case (to a certain degree, we still have the bogus electoral college system, but generally speaking, your vote counts). So citizens are now able to vote, and that justifies us being able to be taxed.

Seems to me corporations can't vote, however. Seems to me they are being taxed without representation.

Call corporations a US resident, I don't really care. I know what they are technically called.

But a name is just that, and in my mind, a corporation isn't SHIT until they get the same rights as other US residents.


Call me a Stephen Colbert fanboy, but companies in the USA can vote with their wallets when they donate to campain.