By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Why can't other 2nd party Nintendo devs ever compete with RARE?

the craziest thing about them was the amount of different genres they made and were still able to be really good at them,
the only actual studio that can do that is The Behemoth, but they need much longer for their games



Around the Network

Level 5

White Knight Chronicles series

Ni no Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch

Professor Layton series

Inazuma Eleven series

Atamania series

Little Battlers Experience series

Yo-Kai Watch series

Liberation Maiden

Aero Porter

Crimson Shroud

Weapon Shop de Omasse

Time Travelers 

Fantasy Life 

Attack of the Friday Monsters!

Bugs vs. Tanks

The Starship Damrey

Wonder Flick



IMHO i think a part of it is that Rare was afforded much more freedom in those days. Moreso than Retro is and no they are not the new Rare not even close



Intelligent Systems

Fire Emblem series.

Super Metroid

Paper Mario series.

Advance Wars series

Cubivore

WarioWare series

Pushmo/Crashmo series

Code Name: S.T.E.A.M.



spurgeonryan said:
AZWification said:

It's very hard to compete with Rare! Rare tackled many different genres including 3D platformers, FPS and fighting games! I highly doubt Retro could ever compete with Rare in that regard!:S


But when it comes to talent there are plenty of talented people out there. I do not understand what the excuse is. We have experts in FPS with Metroid, experts in 2D plateformers with Donkey Kong, etc. The talent is there. 

 

As for amount of games. The Wii had thousands of shovelware titles come out for it and still has more trickling out. I am not saying I want shovelware, just that that proves games can easily be made. Some devs pushed out a ton of games, they just needed a bit more time and polish. With Nintendos guidance a few companies could handle this, and it does not have to be for Nintendos main franchses. Rare made their own characters and worlds. Other devs could as well. Nintendo acts like they know nothing about anything. 

If you are ok with N64 level graphics, then developers could pump out games at the rate that Rare did.  If you expect more, then it is going to take a lot more time.  Simple as that.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
Switch - The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (2019)
Switch - Bastion (2011/2018)
3DS - Star Fox 64 3D (2011)
3DS - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Trilogy) (2005/2014)
Wii U - Darksiders: Warmastered Edition (2010/2017)
Mobile - The Simpson's Tapped Out and Yugioh Duel Links
PC - Deep Rock Galactic (2020)

Around the Network
NoirSon said:
The biggest hurdle appears to be Nintendo itself.

During the SNES, N64 and early parts of the GC era, Nintendo was a lot more open, experimental and less restrictive with the types of games it let its second party developers work on.

1. Since, a quarter or about half way through the Wii's life cycle there was a shift that contracted most games Nintendo would put support behind. We are only now seeing Nintendo shift away from that stance in terms of the games it supports but the fact is had Rare stuck around they wouldn't have done nearly as many original games as they did in the N64 era.

2. Retro could have done more games in the Wii era then Metroid Prime 3 (and technically Trilogy) and Donkey Kong Country Returns, Nintendo just didn't let them pull the trigger on allocating sources to other projects.

1. Is there any evidence at all for this?  Nintendo didn't support Rare's Conker's Bad Fur Day back on the N64 for just one example.  What change are you talking about?  Nintendo has always been careful about releasing only quality (and mostly family friendly) software under their name.

2. So people were just sitting around Retro doing nothing?  They didn't have more resources to allocate.  Games take a lot longer to make now due to the vastly increased complexity.  I'm not sure why the OP, and some people in the thread refuse to acknowledge this.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
Switch - The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (2019)
Switch - Bastion (2011/2018)
3DS - Star Fox 64 3D (2011)
3DS - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Trilogy) (2005/2014)
Wii U - Darksiders: Warmastered Edition (2010/2017)
Mobile - The Simpson's Tapped Out and Yugioh Duel Links
PC - Deep Rock Galactic (2020)

lord_of_flood said:
Rare's games were great at the time, but some of their games during the N64 era didn't really age that well (Goldeneye and Jet Force Gemini are good examples of that). Also, they kind of lost their luster after Star Fox Adventures, so it was probably a good thing Nintendo sold their shares to Microsoft and invested in Retro Studios instead.


They could have kept the franchise IPs instead of sold them off. Then we wouldn't have were are the games comments on here as some other studio would have been able to do perfect dar, Jet Force Gemini, Banjo, KIller Instinct. 

 



 

 

theRepublic said:
NoirSon said:
The biggest hurdle appears to be Nintendo itself.

During the SNES, N64 and early parts of the GC era, Nintendo was a lot more open, experimental and less restrictive with the types of games it let its second party developers work on.

1. Since, a quarter or about half way through the Wii's life cycle there was a shift that contracted most games Nintendo would put support behind. We are only now seeing Nintendo shift away from that stance in terms of the games it supports but the fact is had Rare stuck around they wouldn't have done nearly as many original games as they did in the N64 era.

2. Retro could have done more games in the Wii era then Metroid Prime 3 (and technically Trilogy) and Donkey Kong Country Returns, Nintendo just didn't let them pull the trigger on allocating sources to other projects.

1. Is there any evidence at all for this?  Nintendo didn't support Rare's Conker's Bad Fur Day back on the N64 for just one example.  What change are you talking about?  Nintendo has always been careful about releasing only quality (and mostly family friendly) software under their name.

2. So people were just sitting around Retro doing nothing?  They didn't have more resources to allocate.  Games take a lot longer to make now due to the vastly increased complexity.  I'm not sure why the OP, and some people in the thread refuse to acknowledge this.

 

1. Yeah, Conker's Bad Gur Day was released on the N64, they also release Geist and Eternal Darkness on the GC. As I said the contraction seemed to occur about a quarter or about half way through the Wii's life cycle. They obviously still released quality games and took chances, but you can name a number of games they decided not to release sequels to on the Wii despite the system and its motion controls fitting the game play like 1080 Snowboarding, Star Fox or F-Zero. Then you have some less then family friendly games that could have helped parched the drought in the Wii's Western (or NA in particular) release schedule between their own major releases such as Diaster: Day of Crisis, Zangeki no Reginleiv, Fatal Frame/Zero 4 and the remake of Fatal Frame/Zero 2 and nearly the three extremely well done Operation Rainfall games. These were small releases that could have helped during the back half of the Wii's life cycle, heck not cutting of the creation of games like Metriod Prime Trilogy, Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, Punch-Out and a number of other games less then 18 after their release would have also helped in that regard.

2. I agree with you but the fact is Nintendo controls Retro and how much they have to work with. Nintendo was more content for most of the Wii's life cycle to have Retro work on either Donkey Kong Country or working to help other teams (such as their contributions toward Mario Kart 7 stages) then actually working on new software. Retro isn't a massive team but they should still be large enough that you can have some of them working on one big project and others working on something smaller even if it is only meant to be a eShop or DS/3DS title. If other Nintendo teams like Intelligent systems and even Monolith Soft can work on multiple projects Retro should have output then they do unless they are being muzzled on what they actually are able to do. We get several open sandbox games and their sequels in the last generation, while AAA development is hard and a much longer process, just putting out software can still be done in reasonable time if effort and the main company is willing.



I've honestly been wondering the same thing. Retro is "supposed" to be the new Rare, but really just in that they work with Donkey Kong IPs. They don't release anywhere near as many titles as Rare did, and I really am amazed at the consistently high quality that Rare turned out, when they had such a rapid development cycle.

No other developer has ever had that, including Rare themselves, since then.



 SW-5120-1900-6153

sundin13 said:
You just can't make retail games at the pace that you used to be able to...It just doesn't work.

Well, you could. IF Nintendo started Wii U game devolepment of titles in the 4th year of Wii. But that requires them to finalize system specs really far in advance. And leave certain hardware revisions  as the years progress.