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AZWification said:
outlawauron said:

This is either the best trolling I've ever seen or you're saying don't judge you for having sex with your father for employment opportunities.

I'm pretty sure Anf was just trolling there!

If so, I don't give him enough credit.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

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famousringo said:
Tamron said:

And yet, women still come here, you're reading the response from one right now.

Just because some women are thick-skinned enough to put up with it is no excuse for driving away those who aren't.

I used to think feminism was largely a solved problem. The major battles were won and we just needed to wait for the dinosaurs to die out. Pay equality has a way to go, but it's getting better, so why worry?

But not all numbers are moving in the right direction. Female Computer Science grads peaked at 35% way back in 1984 and have fallen down to 12% in recent years. Women representation in top creative positions in the film industry are in the mid-teens and falling.

You can't convince me that women stink at math and logic or don't see a useful career in computers, or that they aren't interested in making movies. So I can only conclude that without enough feminist pressure for reform, a boy's club culture is re-asserting itself in certain industries, and it makes the environment toxic for women in ways both subtle and obvious.

I went to an all womens college, there was virtually no pressure, intimidation or boys-club culture to speak of, and yet the comp sci course i took was the only course on the entire campus with less than 15 students

Can you say with a straight face that the women of that college chose to avoid computer science because of "boys club", when not a single student is male, and the vast majority of faculty staff were female?

Truth is simply that comp sci was an unpopular course, people preffered and actively saught out other courses that they found more interesting.

So kindly don't play the numbers game trying to blame percentages of people taking certain courses on men, because that's bullshit, the reason is simply free will.



Tamron said:

Why would I need to convince you of anything?, and what does the number of female computer science grads have to do with anything?

Last i checked people had a choice in what course they chose to take, is it really so far fetched to consider the idea that women simply find interest in other things? your entire point here seems to be based purely on the assumption that you both understand the views of a woman, and that a larger portion of women think in the same way.

I would think the relationship between comp sci grads and video game culture would be obvious. Do you really need me to spell it out for you?

Hint: it involves how games are made.

Certainly women are free to choose, so if there are few women making games or hanging out on game forums, you must be right that women just aren't interested in games.

Wait, except 48% of the gaming population is female.



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

famousringo said:

Wait, except 48% of the gaming population is female.

Thats a hard stat, it doesn't factor in how many of them actively play games vs the Wii Sports and Just Dance demographic.

Anyways, I think that whole deal is more due to societal and cultural expectations for what is masculine and what is feminine in the job world. I don't think its so much of a sexism issue



famousringo said:
Tamron said:

Why would I need to convince you of anything?, and what does the number of female computer science grads have to do with anything?

Last i checked people had a choice in what course they chose to take, is it really so far fetched to consider the idea that women simply find interest in other things? your entire point here seems to be based purely on the assumption that you both understand the views of a woman, and that a larger portion of women think in the same way.

I would think the relationship between comp sci grads and video game culture would be obvious. Do you really need me to spell it out for you?

Hint: it involves how games are made.

Certainly women are free to choose, so if there are few women making games or hanging out on game forums, you must be right that women just aren't interested in games.

Wait, except 48% of the gaming population is female.

being a gamer does not mean that you by default use forums,  and many people,  regardless of gender dont,  there are plenty of women on these forums,  regardless of if they chose to openly share thier gender or not. 



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go ahead and paste some more numbers, and white knight without a cause, but for the love of god stop saying shit like 'some just have thicker skin than others' its outright insulting, women dont need protecting and trying to be their shield only serves to underline that you consider women to be weak and delicate, and in need of protection.

that in itself is sexist.



Tachikoma said:

I went to an all womens college, there was virtually no pressure, intimidation or boys-club culture to speak of, and yet the comp sci course i took was the only course on the entire campus with less than 15 students

Can you say with a straight face that the women of that college chose to avoid computer science because of "boys club", when not a single student is male, and the vast majority of faculty staff were female?

Truth is simply that comp sci was an unpopular course, people preffered and actively saught out other courses that they found more interesting.

So kindly don't play the numbers game trying to blame percentages of people taking certain courses on men, because that's bullshit, the reason is simply free will.

So why was comp sci so much more popular amongst women in 1984 than the women of your generation? Why were women three times more geeky 30 years ago? Why would they flee from an industry with a bright future that they seemed to have a pretty firm stake in?

Here's a challenge for you: Can you find me one example of a female game developer who doesn't think her gender is a barrier? Because I only seem to be reading those rare edge cases where actual, working female game developers find it problematic. 



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

shikamaru317 said:
famousringo said:

Wait, except 48% of the gaming population is female.

Pretty sure that number includes casual gamers that play games on cell phones and Facebook. There is no way that 48% of core gamers are female, and core gamers are the kind of gamer typically found on forums like this one. 

I'll also add that the total number of gamers is still a tiny amount compared to the total number of people on the planet especially core gamers who number like what? 20-30m maybe 40m as a rough guess, if roughly half of that group are female (15-20m for a rounded up estimate) that's barely even a blink in the eye on a planet of around 7 billion people.



famousringo said:

So why was comp sci so much more popular amongst women in 1984 than the women of your generation? Why were women three times more geeky 30 years ago? Why would they flee from an industry with a bright future that they seemed to have a pretty firm stake in?

Here's a challenge for you: Can you find me one example of a female game developer who doesn't think her gender is a barrier? Because I only seem to be reading those rare edge cases where actual, working female game developers find it problematic. 


Here's the thing about those statistics when they use percentages it can be misleading, do you have actual numbers of women in those courses because an example is if much more people are doing the courses now then in the 80s then a lower percentage can be misleading much like how 35% of 100 is lower then 10% of 10000, what are the actual numbers? Also you don't need to go to a computer science course to get into gaming as today the are more schemes and dedicated courses for it so I think you're misguided some what on this.



famousringo said:
Tamron said:

Why would I need to convince you of anything?, and what does the number of female computer science grads have to do with anything?

Last i checked people had a choice in what course they chose to take, is it really so far fetched to consider the idea that women simply find interest in other things? your entire point here seems to be based purely on the assumption that you both understand the views of a woman, and that a larger portion of women think in the same way.

I would think the relationship between comp sci grads and video game culture would be obvious. Do you really need me to spell it out for you?

Hint: it involves how games are made.

Certainly women are free to choose, so if there are few women making games or hanging out on game forums, you must be right that women just aren't interested in games.

Wait, except 48% of the gaming population is female.

Do you like being deliberately deceitful. Mobile and social gaming is dominated by women. Remove those platforms from the statisitics, and it becomes lopsided.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.