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Forums - Gaming - Diff between PS4/XB1 > PS3/360

CGI-Quality said:
Machiavellian said:
CGI-Quality said:

-snip

What does parity means to a developer.  Gamers throw this term around without really understanding what it means to a developer.  Nothing has changed from this gen then last gen when it comes to parity.  Last gen, developers worked harder to get the PS3 to perform and look as good as the 360 because it took longer for developers to access the strengths of the PS3.  Same thing goes this gen.  Developers have to work harder to get the X1 to look as good or close to the PS4.  Parity does not mean that developers gimp the PS4 version but instead, developers have a target of what they can and cannot do with both consoles.  What we have seen from parity is that developers are working with the tools and SDK MS have given them to attempt to either meet the PS4 on resolution or graphical effects.  

The thing we will see and are seeing is that the easier to code for console is not the one getting the most attention from developers because its easy.  Few tweaks are needed and thus those resources are sent to work on the hardware that takes the longest.  If the easier to code for hardware really make a lot of difference, we would see the same games on the PC totally outstripe the consoles but that does not happen.

As a developer myself, I know exactly what parity means. Let's not try to talk down to people. Never once did I mention "gimping". I said if parity is on the table, individual specification advantages become moot. Such a "clause" was not there last gen (which is why so many PS3 games remained behind their 360 counterparts).

Next, you ignored my question about the math (since you attempted to talk down to me in that last post, as well). Beyond that, your argument has shifted from: "last gen had bigger differences" to "the differences are the same". Which is it?

First to adress your math question.  The reason I did not address it is because its not the point.  I am not debating the difference between 720p vs 1080P, I am debating that there is a gap between games from 3rd party developers where you have a difference of 720P vs 1080P.  This is what it appeared to me you were alluding in the post I responded to and I asked which game show such a gap.  

From my understanding of the discussion, the question was the difference between this gen and last and whether or not the gap between the 2 systems in question is larger or smaller.  I my opinion you seem to be exagerating the gap and the numbers as your numbers appear a little to generic.  What titles showed 50% difference between 3rd party games as measuring first part is not possible.

Now with that explaination out of the way, lets address your first paragraph.  I have no clue what your level of experience or understanding of topic and terms.  We see a lot of people throw terms around not fully knowing what they mean.  If I came off as talking down to you then I apologize.  I am also a developer but do not develop games.  My specialty is Enterprise level software that communicate on cloud platforms as well as local installations.  I also teach and develop API for the software my company sells to other businesses.  The thing is, none of that means anything in this discussion because I do not develop games.  I do understand the development process but for this discussion it matters not.

So with that out of the way to answer your last paragraph, what i see this gen is no different then last gen.  I do not see the PS4 having so much power that it will really make that much of a difference then last gen.  From the crop of 3rd party games coming out, you either see games with all features running on both consoles with the X1 at 900/60 or 30 and the PS4 with all features running at 1080P/60 or 30.  Thats pretty much it.  The last analysis I just read was on Diablo 3 where the game is running 1080P/60 (sort of) on the PS4 while running 900P/60 on the X1.  In this scenerio, the X1 has the smoother framerate with lower res while the PS4 is the one getting the stutters.  Even so, Blizzard stated they may be able to get the X1 to 1080P so things might change come release.

Botton line is that even though there is a difference between teh PS4 and X1, I am stating nothing has really changed from this gen then last even if the PS4 is more powerful than the X1.  Its not by enough margin to make a difference and if anything it might not even show that much once developers lock in on both systems.



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CGI-Quality said:

As a developer myself, I know exactly what parity means. Let's not try to talk down to people. Never once did I mention "gimping". I said if parity is on the table, individual specification advantages become moot. Such a "clause" was not there last gen (which is why so many PS3 games remained behind their 360 counterparts).

 


"Such a "clause" was not there last gen"

Any way you could provide any remote evidence of such a broad statement or should we take the word of a self-proclaimed "developer" ?



CGI-Quality said:
Machiavellian said:
CGI-Quality said:

-snip

First to adress your math question.  The reason I did not address it is because its not the point.  I am not debating the difference between 720p vs 1080P, I am debating that there is a gap between games from 3rd party developers where you have a difference of 720P vs 1080P.  This is what it appeared to me you were alluding in the post I responded to and I asked which game show such a gap.  

Which game has shown a 720p vs 1080p gap? Why Call of Duty: Ghosts, in fact - in addition to, MGSV: Ground Zeroes. The only reason I brought in the math talk is because you said ithe percentages I used were exaggerated. Whether it was your point or not isn't relevant, because it was very much a part of mine (which you attempted to refute).

Edit: Besides this, though, seems you agree with me more than you disagree. ;)

Yes, we do agree.  I was wondering about the large difference in performance which you gave 2 game i totally forgot about where you have the X1 at 720P while the PS4 is at 1080P.

Ok I stand corrected, and willing to admit it.  I still hold on to my opinion (as if anyone ever gives up their opinion). I am looking forward to see if we really see more separtion between both consoles or if MS is able to help squeez enough juice that the difference is pretty much the same as last gen.



CGI-Quality said:
fighter said:
CGI-Quality said:

-snip


"Such a "clause" was not there last gen"

Any way you could provide any remote evidence of such a broad statement or should we take the word of a self-proclaimed "developer" ?

Provide me a source showing the error. 

I am not the one making wild claims.

 

Are you or are you not going to back up that claim ?



Are we talking about developer seeking parity for their games on different consoles are we talking about some actual parity clause instituted by one of the platform holders. From my understanding, MS has never stated any parity clause for retail games and i believe they can't.

As for a developer seeking parity, well isn't that always the case.



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CGI-Quality said:
Machiavellian said:
Are we talking about developer seeking parity for their games on different consoles are we talking about some actual parity clause instituted by one of the platform holders. From my understanding, MS has never stated any parity clause for retail games and i believe they can't.

As for a developer seeking parity, well isn't that always the case.

Developers moving topward parity. Last gen, the developers weren't as strict about it (neither was Sony). This gen, however, developers are making it a point to make their games equal across both platforms.

In a way, I understand why - the PS3, in relative terms, was far more difficult to work with (versus the 360) then the X1 is next to the PS4.

Where are you seeing that developers are treating the 2 systems any different this gen then last.  Has it ever been a case where 3rd party developers really look to max out one system over another when they are selling on multiple platforms.  From my memory, developers have always stated they look for balance from all platforms including PC.  



CGI-Quality said:
Machiavellian said:

Where are you seeing that developers are treating the 2 systems any different this gen then last.  Has it ever been a case where 3rd party developers really look to max out one system over another when they are selling on multiple platforms.  From my memory, developers have always stated they look for balance from all platforms including PC.  

Nope. Balance was not there in the PS3's life and only appeared long after the first couple of years - and not from every developer. In fact, before last gen, developers would tailor their games to each system's strength (a practice I miss). Only recently has that gone out the window. 

This gen, at least at first, looked like devs were going back to making a game to each system's specs, but with this new "parity" that some have opted for (Destiny a recent culprit), I'm not holding my breath.

isn't the reason 3rd party developers cannot talor their games to each platform anymore is due to the cost of development has risen so much.  Even the case with Destiny is more getting the X1 to the PS4 level then holding the PS4 back or PC because of the limitations of the X1.  I believe 3rd party developers are looking for balance because it really do cost to much to have separate teams doing their own thing for each platform.



Yes and No. - I'd say mainly no.

Yes because in terms of percentage, the gap between PS4 and X1 is larger than between the 360 and PS3.

No because the smaller gap the 360 had over PS3 'seemed' like more than larger percentage gap between the PS4 and X1, because it was at a lower level.

For example, its easier to spot a difference between a game running at 25 and 30 fps than it is to tell the difference between a game running at 50 vs 60fps. But depends on the game though.