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Forums - Politics Discussion - Scottish Independence vote - Yes or No?

 

Are you voting for Scottish independence?

Yes 288 51.15%
 
No 275 48.85%
 
Total:563
The Fury said:
ikki5 said:

I'm also curious to know what they'd change the flag too if they did separate and go independent.

If by they you mean the left over United Kingdom. I don't think anything would change, Scotland would just use the Saltire while United Kingdom will stay the same. We are still British after all, the Union Flag represents us as well as Scotland (even if they don't think it does).


Why would it stay the same? Do you know what the Union Jack stands for? It stands for the union between England, Scottland and Ireland and with Scotland no longer united into one, the flag would not repesent what it actually means. I know Endland does have it'ts own flag and that won't change but the Union Jack for the United Kingdom would enither disappear or be changed to represent the union of two instead of three.



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ikki5 said:

Why would it stay the same? Do you know what the Union Jack stands for? It stands for the union between England, Scottland and Ireland and with Scotland no longer united into one, the flag would not repesent what it actually means. I know Endland does have it'ts own flag and that won't change but the Union Jack for the United Kingdom would enither disappear or be changed to represent the union of two instead of three.

Okay sure. So what about Ausrtralia? New Zealand? And all those other now independent nations (with the queen as head) or even places like Hawaii. That Union Jack in the top left. They keep it for it's significance on their history. Without Scotland the United Kingdom wouldn't even exist (same King), so why should we give it up just because Scotland are breaking us up?



Hmm, pie.

An interesting read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Union_1707#Political_motivations

Most of these motivations are not valid anymore and England heavily threatens the interests of the Scottish economy by considering to leave the European Union.

And I do not think currency is a problem, it does not really matter whether the British pound or a new Scottish pound or something in between (like a a new Scottish pound which is bound to the British pound in value) is being used. Many small countries or islands using a foreign currency show that such constructions are possible without any problem. The Scottish can use what ever currency they want and they do not need any permission.

However, will not be the Euro as long as the Euro is in the middle of huge crisis that still threatens it's existence.



Whatever the the result is, there will be a large proportion of Scottish people who won't be happy with it. It's going to be very close. The whole thing has divided the population down the middle and that can't be good, whatever the outcome.



The Fury said:
ikki5 said:

Why would it stay the same? Do you know what the Union Jack stands for? It stands for the union between England, Scottland and Ireland and with Scotland no longer united into one, the flag would not repesent what it actually means. I know Endland does have it'ts own flag and that won't change but the Union Jack for the United Kingdom would enither disappear or be changed to represent the union of two instead of three.

Okay sure. So what about Ausrtralia? New Zealand? And all those other now independent nations (with the queen as head) or even places like Hawaii. That Union Jack in the top left. They keep it for it's significance on their history. Without Scotland the United Kingdom wouldn't even exist (same King), so why should we give it up just because Scotland are breaking us up?

Are you stupid? Are you really that dumb? Sorry but I honestly cannot believe that you don't understand this. The Union Jack represents the Union of 3 countries, Ireland, Scotland and England. That is ONE nation. That ONE nation, the Queen is the head of state with the absolute power (dispite what a lot of people believe), though she doesn't excersie it and also more works with the parliment but she still actually has power over that government. Now, Countries like Australia and New Zealand have the Union jack is because the Queen is still technically the head of state and since the home country of the Queen is the UK, they have the flag of her/his country and that would be the Union Jack. With that, if Scotland does seperate, the Home country flag, The Unon Jack, will no longer mean what it represents. If they were to keep The Union Jack, they would need to change the meaning of the stripes or do without the flag entirely and design a new flag. If there is a new design, you will most likly also get those nations that have The Union Jack on their flag, they will probably have their changed as well to the new design.



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ikki5 said:
The Fury said:

Okay sure. So what about Ausrtralia? New Zealand? And all those other now independent nations (with the queen as head) or even places like Hawaii. That Union Jack in the top left. They keep it for it's significance on their history. Without Scotland the United Kingdom wouldn't even exist (same King), so why should we give it up just because Scotland are breaking us up?

Are you stupid? Are you really that dumb? Sorry but I honestly cannot believe that you don't understand this. The Union Jack represents the Union of 3 countries, Ireland, Scottland and England. That is ONE nation. That ONE nation, the Queen is the head of state with the absolute power (dispite what a lot of people believe), though she doesn't excersie it and also more works with the parliment but she still actually has power over that government. Now, Countries like Australia and New Zealand have the Union jack is because the Queen is still technically the head of state and since the home country of the Queen is the UK, they have the flag of her/his country and that would be the Union Jack. With that, if Scottland does seperate, the Home country flag, The Unon Jack, will no longer mean what it represents. If they were to keep The Union Jack, they would need to change the meaning of the stripes or do without the flag entirely and design a new flag. If there is a new design, you will most likly also get those nations that have The Union Jack on their fag, they will probably have their changed as well to the new design.

Don't insult me.

I know the Union Flag represents our joined nations and I understand it very well. But it doesn't mean we, as the rest of the UK who are proud of our nation and proud of our heritage, don't want to keep the flag that represents us. To have to be told just because some people in the North don't want us to have a bit of blue in the background so we have to change it is insulting. St Patrick's Cross is still present on our Union flag but the country it represented, Ireland (as a whole), is no longer part of our Union.

The Queen is head of state of Canada. Canada does not have the Union Flag on theirs flag anymore, they gave it up. It was their choice. So the Queen being head has little to do with it. If Aus and NZ wanted to change there is no stopping them. By your logic, Aus and NZ would have to change their flag too if Scotland left, right?



Hmm, pie.

So, if we arent scottish we cant see the poll results? Bummer. :/

I think scottish should do whatever they feel like. But, if i am honest, Scotland might have more to lose from independance than to gain. But if its something they want in their hearts, they should have it.

Personally, i am a forward thinker. I see the whole of EU uniting as a single country in the future. It will be necessary to rival with the great powers of the world. So, i wonder if this will make a big difference down the line anyways.



Nem said:
So, if we arent scottish we cant see the poll results? Bummer. :/

I think scottish should do whatever they feel like. But, if i am honest, Scotland might have more to lose from independance than to gain. But if its something they want in their hearts, they should have it.

Personally, i am a forward thinker. I see the whole of EU uniting as a single country in the future. It will be necessary to rival with the great powers of the world. So, i wonder if this will make a big difference down the line anyways.


It is 50/50 on here, which seems to mirror real life.



kowenicki said:
Ka-pi96 said:
kowenicki said:
Ka-pi96 said:
I'm English but would say Scotland shouldn't go independent. But then I'm one of those that is also pro-EU, so what do I know?


Where you/are you pro the Euro?

if yes,  then I could answer the last part of your question but it wouldn't be a very positive response...


Would like the Euro one day but not yet. It needs to stabalise first and stop spreading to poorer countries and have all the members work closer together. But if that ever happens then I think the UK should get the Euro as well.

Hopefully everyone thinks this way... that way we will NEVER get it.

A single fiscal policy, interest rate and currency for massively disparate economies... what a great idea!  Jesus.... Politicians huh?

 


Bravo.


Where do you stand on the UK Independence party?



The Fury said:
ikki5 said:
The Fury said:

Okay sure. So what about Ausrtralia? New Zealand? And all those other now independent nations (with the queen as head) or even places like Hawaii. That Union Jack in the top left. They keep it for it's significance on their history. Without Scotland the United Kingdom wouldn't even exist (same King), so why should we give it up just because Scotland are breaking us up?

Are you stupid? Are you really that dumb? Sorry but I honestly cannot believe that you don't understand this. The Union Jack represents the Union of 3 countries, Ireland, Scottland and England. That is ONE nation. That ONE nation, the Queen is the head of state with the absolute power (dispite what a lot of people believe), though she doesn't excersie it and also more works with the parliment but she still actually has power over that government. Now, Countries like Australia and New Zealand have the Union jack is because the Queen is still technically the head of state and since the home country of the Queen is the UK, they have the flag of her/his country and that would be the Union Jack. With that, if Scottland does seperate, the Home country flag, The Unon Jack, will no longer mean what it represents. If they were to keep The Union Jack, they would need to change the meaning of the stripes or do without the flag entirely and design a new flag. If there is a new design, you will most likly also get those nations that have The Union Jack on their fag, they will probably have their changed as well to the new design.

Don't insult me.

I know the Union Flag represents our joined nations and I understand it very well. But it doesn't mean we, as the rest of the UK who are proud of our nation and proud of our heritage, don't want to keep the flag that represents us. To have to be told just because some people in the North don't want us to have a bit of blue in the background so we have to change it is insulting. St Patrick's Cross is still present on our Union flag but the country it represented, Ireland (as a whole), is no longer part of our Union.

The Queen is head of state of Canada. Canada does not have the Union Flag on theirs flag anymore, they gave it up. It was their choice. So the Queen being head has little to do with it. If Aus and NZ wanted to change there is no stopping them. By your logic, Aus and NZ would have to change their flag too if Scotland left, right?

Sorry but your comments are just getting stupid and dumb because you fail to see how Scotland leaving would affect the meaning of the UK flag and therefore would be in for a change due to a change in what it represents. I also see you missed my last line in my comment when referring to Canada.

" If there is a new design, you will most likly also get those nations that have The Union Jack on their flag, they will probably have their changed as well to the new design." ("fag" was a typo where I missed the "L" originally when typing and your quote took it before I made the change)

Implying that there are nations that are under the crown but  do not have The Union Jack off their flag. And yes, by my logic, Australia and NZ would need to change their flag because their flag would be representing something that no longer exists unless the meaning of The Union Jack is changed. So in order to keep it as representing what something means, then they will need to change their flag as well to accomidate the new flag that the UK would use if Scotland were to seperate. It doesn't matter if you feel proud and patroitic of The Union Jack as it stands or not, you would be feeling proud and patroitic of something that doesn't exist and more and is dead. So comes back to the Canadain flag, yes it was their choice to remove The union jack off the flag in 1965, prior to that, the Canadian flag did have the Union Jack on it similar to what AUS and NZ are now. AUS and NZ can do this as well and then just go with their own flag with nothing represting the crown if The Union Jack lost it's meaning. If they were to keep the flag that represented the crown, then it would be changed to whatever the new flag is to be.

As for your arguement about the St. patrick's cross because Ireland as a whole is not there, the thing is, part of Ireland still is. It may not be a whole, but there is still a Union with ireland even if it is not a whole.