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Forums - Politics - Scottish Independence vote - Yes or No?

 

Are you voting for Scottish independence?

Yes 288 51.15%
 
No 275 48.85%
 
Total:563
Adinnieken said:
Augen said:
I would just be concerned economically with an aging population in Scotland. If anything it means instead of Westminster being held responsible Holyrood would have to resolve Scotland's issues. To me it is how strongly do you feel about being independent to shoulder the cost and responsibilities.

While most developed nations naturually have an aging population, Scotland has encountered a rise in in-migration.  The bigger question is about entrepreneurship and industrial growth.  As it stands right now, Scotland as a whole has a better financial outlook than does England.

The uncertainty lies with oil and gas.  Much of Scotland's independent future relies on oil and gas (as coincidentally does the UKs, but Westminster doesn't talk about that does it?).  Whether or not an Independent Scotland can build up the reserves Holyrood says it would, remains to be seen.  I haven't looked at the actual numbers, so I can't say that they add up.

My views may be a bit dated, I lived in Scotland (Glasgow to be precise) years ago when the debate was going on.  One of the things I gathered was Scotland tends to have more social programs with leftist parties having some presence.  Nothing inherently wrong with this, but it did bring up the matter of paying for such things.  I heard much of projections on North Sea oil as the panacea for such ills, but those numbers seemed to differ vastly depending on who you asked.

I wish all the best for the people of Scotland, very kind and welcoming to me in my time there. 



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Madword said:

You know that 1920's was nearly 100 years ago, get over it for petes sakes. Wow some people said some nasty things 100 years ago... absolutely crazy.

Ireland is what it is now. You on one hand want Scotland to decide their fate, but when it comes to NI which wants to decide their fate you throw around very old dare i say it, hate of Britain stuff. Not sure if you have some issue with Britain or British people, but reading your stuff definately reads that way.


Said and did are two different things. THis is why history is doomed to repeat itself, people want to say "the past is in the past, let it go", but it all comes around full circle again because it was never properly resolved. That's exactly why the entire planet is going to shite, because no one ever claims ownership of an issue to rectify it. The only thing that changes is that the weapons get stronger and more devastating.



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kowenicki said:

So the Scottish should decide its own fate, but the people of NI should shut up and join Ireland.

Can you declare your postion more clearly please... ie.  Why you hate England so much? 

 

 


Easy, easy, don't pull the victim card out. If there's anything I can specifically hate about England, it's the Beatles. =P But Monty Python is awesome.

The Scottish are from Scotland, it's their land by birthright, before the English decided to take it over in the medieval era. The people of Northern Ireland are settlers on land that England usurped from Ireland. In the 1920s they gave PART of the land they stole back to Ireland, but not all of it. Thus, 70+ years of bloodshed and murdered innocents on both sides.

If there's any hatred shown in these facts, its how much the English hated/hate the Irish.

So to answer your initial question - those with the right to the land get to decide its fate, imo. You are free to disagree with that, I'm not trying to get you to see it from my perspective. Yet, I see the picture from the outside looking in, whereas you are inside the picture, so I assume, as an English citizen, and naturally favor one side of the argument considerably more than the other due to that.



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Speaking as a Yorkshireman: please don't leave us alone with those southern pansies; they'll ruin everything! (Or take us with you)

But seriously; independence would kill the Scottish economy. There isn't a chance of automatic EU membership, the entire banking sector would be forced to relocate to England, and either public services would face a drastic cut or your taxes would skyrocket. Plus you'd have to change your currency as you wouldn't be permitted to keep Sterling.

The yes campaign will tell you otherwise on these points, but the simple truth is that they have no influence over these issues. Control of Sterling is Bank of England and British government, and they have no reason to allow or want a currency union. EU membership is based on applying and waiting years to be allowed in. And under European law, companies have to be based in the country where they conduct the majority of their business; so the banking sector that is so crucial to the Scottish economy would have to relocate. On top of that, it would be very hard, if not impossible to get mortgages etc. as British based banks and building societies are not permitted to lend outside the EU and the criteria for lending outside the UK is incredibly strict in any case.

Simply put; voting yes would harm Scotland almost beyond repair. As much as I'd like the North of England to receive more independence from those Tory arseholes down South and maybe get representatives who actually, you know, represent. Splitting from the rest of the country is suicide.

Also, Scotland makes up part of my identity as British, as does Wales and Northern Ireland. I may have been born and raised in England, but 'English' is not and has never been part of my nationality.

This is Alex Salmond's ego trip, don't give it him.



ToxicJosh said:
Speaking as a Yorkshireman: please don't leave us alone with those southern pansies; they'll ruin everything! (Or take us with you)

But seriously; independence would kill the Scottish economy. There isn't a chance of automatic EU membership, the entire banking sector would be forced to relocate to England, and either public services would face a drastic cut or your taxes would skyrocket. Plus you'd have to change your currency as you wouldn't be permitted to keep Sterling.

The yes campaign will tell you otherwise on these points, but the simple truth is that they have no influence over these issues. Control of Sterling is Bank of England and British government, and they have no reason to allow or want a currency union. EU membership is based on applying and waiting years to be allowed in. And under European law, companies have to be based in the country where they conduct the majority of their business; so the banking sector that is so crucial to the Scottish economy would have to relocate. On top of that, it would be very hard, if not impossible to get mortgages etc. as British based banks and building societies are not permitted to lend outside the EU and the criteria for lending outside the UK is incredibly strict in any case.

Simply put; voting yes would harm Scotland almost beyond repair. As much as I'd like the North of England to receive more independence from those Tory arseholes down South and maybe get representatives who actually, you know, represent. Splitting from the rest of the country is suicide.

Also, Scotland makes up part of my identity as British, as does Wales and Northern Ireland. I may have been born and raised in England, but 'English' is not and has never been part of my nationality.

This is Alex Salmond's ego trip, don't give it him.

Independence wouldn't kill the Scottish economy.

Why is EU membership necessary?  In fact, I still don't understand why Scotland would excise itself from one union, and jump right into another union.  So, honestly, I think the EU thing is a joke.  The only benefit the EU provides to European Nations is a single currency, but that same benefit is also a significant drawback because having the Euro as a currency means not having monetary control.  Your currency doesn't adjust, thus if or when there are issues in the economy, and prices need to adjust down or increase, they can't. 

However, there is nothing that prevents Scotland from using the GBP (it isn't the Pound Sterling anymore either -- it hasn't been for ages -- the pound isn't based on Silver notes.) , there are countries around the world, that use the US dollar as their national currency or their currency of choice or trade.  There's nothing stopping Scotland from using the GBP for their currency.  However, they run into the same problem as if they adopt the Euro.  They don't have control of it.

Scotland would be better off using it's own currency.  Whether it chooses to establish it's own or not is another question.

I don't understand what logic you're attempting to use by implying Scottish financial sector would move to England.  This logically is incoherent.  Under what premise does this even make sense?  Any bank or financial institution stupid enough to exit the Scottish market would be replaced by another bank or financial institution.  The implication suggest a complete lack of understanding of the financial sector.  Really, seriously, WTF?

I think the solution to your British banks problem would be solved by Scottish banks.  I'm just making a logical conclusion here.  There are Scottish banks in Scotland. 



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Adinnieken said:

Why is EU membership necessary?  In fact, I still don't understand why Scotland would excise itself from one union, and jump right into another union.  So, honestly, I think the EU thing is a joke.  The only benefit the EU provides to European Nations is a single currency, but that same benefit is also a significant drawback because having the Euro as a currency means not having monetary control.  Your currency doesn't adjust, thus if or when there are issues in the economy, and prices need to adjust down or increase, they can't. 

EU membership comes with perks, like freedom of movement or huge trade benefits, these trade benefits are worth more than the single currency which has been show to be unstable.



Hmm, pie.

Raze said:

The Scottish are from Scotland, it's their land by birthright, before the English decided to take it over in the medieval era. 

Union of the Crowns and the Acts of Union are what you are looking for. The hostile events of the past were overlooked because of a mutual monarch in 1707.



Hmm, pie.

Anyway, I wish our fellow Brits to the north success in whatever the outcome of their vote is. I believe we will stronger together however but you are free to follow your choice.

Shame really, maybe we should join forces and make a Great Britain Football Team once and for all, gets some Steven Davis, Naismith and Bale into a unified team and we might, just might, make it past the group stages of the World Cup.



Hmm, pie.

Okay I'm going to ask a question. This isn't to offend anyone here at all. I'm just very ignorant on the subject and I see that I have live Scottsman and Irishman on this site to enlighten me.

What's the difference between Scottland and Ireland? I've met people from both and they have the same accent, same last name, seems like the same mannerisms. Can someone tell me please?



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Rafie said:
Okay I'm going to ask a question. This isn't to offend anyone here at all. I'm just very ignorant on the subject and I see that I have live Scottsman and Irishman on this site to enlighten me.

What's the difference between Scottland and Ireland? I've met people from both and they have the same accent, same last name, seems like the same mannerisms. Can someone tell me please?

Countries have borders that separate them from neighbouring countries. Scotland is one country, Ireland is another country.

Hope I helped.