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Forums - Sales Discussion - Why Nintendo shouldn't suck up to third parties

sundin13 said:
NightDragon83 said:
As long as Nintendo refuses to elevate 3rd party titles to the same level as theirs and promote them equally, they will continue to suffer poor 3rd party support, and 3rd parties will rightly be biased against them. And anyone who says Nintendo games like DK Tropical Freeze, MK 8 and Mario 3D World for example are above and beyond top 3rd party AAA titles, well, that's a perfect example of why Nintendo's console sales are in the crapper these days and why 3rd parties ignore Nintendo.


That wont happen until third parties start treating Nintendo equally. You talked about bundles, well, Nintendo had a ZombiU bundle at launch, but what other big third party games deserved bundles? Watch Dogs? Nintendo isn't going to say "get your sub par multiplats late, only on Wii U!"...thats just silly. Nintendo can't work with something that isn't there...

PS: It isn't Nintendo's job to promote third party games...that what the publisher is for. However, I would like to point out that there are some third party games that Nintendo has published in the west such as Monster Hunter

Some publishers don't even like to promote their games on the Wii U. Take Need For Speed: Most Wanted U for example. Criterion was on record to say that they even went so far as to ask Nintendo for help in this department, but Nintendo didn't help them. You'd think EA would promote their own game, but nope.



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This is an unsolvable problem for Nintendo, because the only realistic solutions would be to either pay off third parties for ports (thus ruining profitability).

How is it ruining profitability? If a said multiplatform game is not coming to the console, Nintnedo receive zero dollars. Paying for port guarantees some level of profitability in that Nintendo would receive royalty payments.



Train wreck said:
Anfebious said:
Train wreck said:
 

I'm sure if Sony conditioned their users to just buy Sony games (by whatever method) and ignore 3rd parties, im sure many of their games would be gracing the top 10 list as well considering they dominate the top 10 for consoles sales :-/


I hope you aren't suggesting that Nintendo forced/conditioned consumers to buy their products, because that would be one of the most ridiculous statements I ever read.

Almost as ridiculous as using game sales to determine quality?

Not even close, one has, at least, data to back it up and has some legs to stand on. The other one comes from your own twisted perception.



"I've Underestimated the Horse Power from Mario Kart 8, I'll Never Doubt the WiiU's Engine Again"

Nintendo either needs to do what it takes to get 3rd parties on board or they need to expand thier capacity enough to deliver a consistent I'm flux of games and a diverse library - It s one or the other- so far they seem to have Ben indecisive on the matter and it has killed the Wii u and the company s profitability - it may end up hurting the 3ds as well



Anfebious said:
Train wreck said:
Anfebious said:
Train wreck said:
 

I'm sure if Sony conditioned their users to just buy Sony games (by whatever method) and ignore 3rd parties, im sure many of their games would be gracing the top 10 list as well considering they dominate the top 10 for consoles sales :-/


I hope you aren't suggesting that Nintendo forced/conditioned consumers to buy their products, because that would be one of the most ridiculous statements I ever read.

Almost as ridiculous as using game sales to determine quality?

Not even close, one has, at least, data to back it up and has some legs to stand on. The other one comes from your own twisted perception.

Conditioned and Forced are two different things. You are the one twisting.  Force is something that is immediate while conditioned is acceptance over a long period of time. Im in no way saying that Nintendo forced consumers to buy their products.  

Im sure over the past 25+ years buyers of Nintendo products have accepted Nintendo's high level of quality and polish and that over the same period 3rd parties have not given them that, so it only makes sense that their software would rise over that of others and turn their consoles into "Nintendo games for Nintendo systems".  Sony has promoted its massive library over their own offerings, and while their offerings sell well, its not surprising to see 3rd parties top their list.

And correct we know that candy crush is over what, 300 million sold/downloaded, quality title right there.



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Train wreck said:
This is an unsolvable problem for Nintendo, because the only realistic solutions would be to either pay off third parties for ports (thus ruining profitability).

How is it ruining profitability? If a said multiplatform game is not coming to the console, Nintnedo receive zero dollars. Paying for port guarantees some level of profitability in that Nintendo would receive royalty payments.

Let's suppose Nintendo had to pay off RockSteady to make Arhkam City Wii U, do you really believe they would have made their money back with the 210k copies it sold? Or if Nintendo had to pay off Namco for Tekken Tag Tournament 2 would have they made their money back with the 130k it sold on Wii U?



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Train wreck said:
Anfebious said:

Not even close, one has, at least, data to back it up and has some legs to stand on. The other one comes from your own twisted perception.

Conditioned and Forced are two different things. You are the one twisting.  Force is something that is immediate while conditioned is acceptance over a long period of time. Im in no way saying that Nintendo forced consumers to buy their products.  

Im sure over the past 25+ years buyers of Nintendo products have accepted Nintendo's high level of quality and polish and that over the same period 3rd parties have not given them that, so it only makes sense that their software would rise over that of others and turn their consoles into "Nintendo games for Nintendo systems".  Sony has promoted its massive library over their own offerings, and while their offerings sell well, its not surprising to see 3rd parties top their list.

And correct we know that candy crush is over what, 300 million sold/downloaded, quality title right there.

If Candy Crush was crap nobody would be playing it and King.com wouldn't be swimming in money. They crafted a game that responds perfectly to a specific demand i.e. games you play when you have a few minutes to kill. They managed to tweek the challenge and gameplay in a way that people keep coming back to it and are willing to spend money to get a few extra moves to finish a level or to purchase special items.

It's not a gaming masterpiece as most people on here would define it but it is a quality title in what it intends to do.



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TruckOSaurus said:
Train wreck said:
This is an unsolvable problem for Nintendo, because the only realistic solutions would be to either pay off third parties for ports (thus ruining profitability).

How is it ruining profitability? If a said multiplatform game is not coming to the console, Nintnedo receive zero dollars. Paying for port guarantees some level of profitability in that Nintendo would receive royalty payments.

Let's suppose Nintendo had to pay off RockSteady to make Arhkam City Wii U, do you really believe they would have made back their money with the 210k copies it sold? Or if Nintendo had to pay off Namco for Tekken Tag Tournament 2 would have they made back their money with the 130k it sold on Wii U?

It depends, if it's the petty effort that Nintendo tends to give then no.  If its on the level of Sony and Microsoft where the title drives hardware, then im sure the payment would be worth it.



NightDragon83 said:

As long as Nintendo refuses to elevate 3rd party titles to the same level as theirs and promote them equally, they will continue to suffer poor 3rd party support, and 3rd parties will rightly be biased against them. And anyone who says Nintendo games like DK Tropical Freeze, MK 8 and Mario 3D World for example are above and beyond top 3rd party AAA titles, well, that's a perfect example of why Nintendo's console sales are in the crapper these days and why 3rd parties ignore Nintendo.

Explain these:

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/02/08/wii-u-zombiu-bundle-coming-to-north-america-feb-17/

http://nintendoenthusiast.com/news/nintendo-launches-3-new-wii-u-hardware-bundles-holiday-season-europe/

http://www.nintendo.com/whatsnew/detail/yKutRcLvK7rK24DfVIQTB23J8o33gONl

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2013/02/monster-hunter-3-ultimate-wii-u-and-3ds-xl-bundles-revealed/

Furthermore Nintendo has been supporting their 3ds partners well - level 5, square, capcom, atlus etc have received great support from Nintendo.

This is business, and it comes down to whether it is beneficial. I don't see how lifting games such as a gimped mass effect 3, a late to the party need for speeds and multiplats that are on consoles with 80 million users will be a win-win situation for nintendo. Even the likes of Watch_dog Wii U are being mishandled - is it too much to ask for a trailer with in game footage of the game running on the Wii U?



NightDragon83 said:
#1 and #2 are both true (#3 is an apples to oranges comparison) and this is in part due to Nintendo's long history of not so great working relationships with 3rd parties (such as the forced exclusive agreements during the NES days to having to use expensive carts as opposed to CDs during the N64 days among other things), and also the fact that they make sure everyone knows their consoles are first and foremost all about their games and everything else comes second.

On the flip side, Sony for example has no problem sharing the limelight with 3rd parties and in fact actively helps support and promote their products, from publishing and heavily promoting FFVII in North America during the PS1 days (which was a huge reason why the game and franchise became so popular in the west), to bundling AAA 3rd party games with their consoles to help them not only push hardware (GTAV PS3 bundle for example) but also to increase the public perception that their console is the premiere platform for said titles (upcoming Destiny PS4 bundle). M$ does the same thing, not only promoting its exclusives like Halo and Gears but giving 3rd party titles like COD and Titanfall a big boost as well.

As long as Nintendo refuses to elevate 3rd party titles to the same level as theirs and promote them equally, they will continue to suffer poor 3rd party support, and 3rd parties will rightly be biased against them. And anyone who says Nintendo games like DK Tropical Freeze, MK 8 and Mario 3D World for example are above and beyond top 3rd party AAA titles, well, that's a perfect example of why Nintendo's console sales are in the crapper these days and why 3rd parties ignore Nintendo.


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