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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The Companies you (defend are Fallible)/(attack aren't evil)

Anfebious said:
Stop applying logic to these fucking console wars. There is nothing "logical" or "rational" about them. Just enjoy them and appreciate them for what they are.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

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sethnintendo said:

Okay... Explain Westwood Studios, Bullfrog, Origin, and the countless other victims of EA.

Companies that would have been purchased and killed off by another corporation or may have went bankrupt long before they were closed down by EA.  While they haven't been shut down yet, Criterion was on the verge of bankruptcy when EA purchased them and paid off their debts in 2004.  It's been 10 years and just recently they have downsized the developer, and it could be because of the losses that EA is getting from them lately but we also don't know how many people they downsized them to either.       

How many companies have been purchased and closed by Activision, Sony, etc?  What about companies that have been purchased and immediately closed down because the purchaser just wanted the IPs?  EA is certainly better  than that last one.  Sony has purchased companies that have been doing well, like Psygnosis who was a game developer and decent sized publisher, and for quite awhile they've stuck them on doing nothing  but the Wipeout series rather than the large library of IPs that they could have drawn from, and because the Wipeout sales have been getting worse and worse, Sony closed Sony Liverpool down.  This is a company that wasn't even struggling when they were purchased.

Every company that EA has purchased and later shut down has been because the company has stopped producing a profit.  It's going to happen regardless of the publisher.  Many companies don't outright say whether they're closing a developer down or not, they lay off people and the development studio sits in limbo.



vivster said:
Intrinsic said:
vivster said:
I don't defend companies. All of them obviously don't know what they're doing.

Oh........ believe me, they know exactly what they are doing. The only people that doesn't know what they are doing are the consumers, thats why what some companies do doesn't make sense to us. 

So where do failures come from then?

We just talking about games here or companies as a whole. If games then a lot can go wrong. Especially when you consider that the people footing the bill usually havent written a line of code in their life. But the guy that green lights the games funding, usually completely believes in "the idea" of the game and sometimes "the team" behind it. 

Its easy for us to look at a bad game and go? why did they even bother making it or why didnt they just fix this or that part, but if you look at the business side of it, usually, for them.... releasing and marketing the hell outta even a bad game is better than just canceling the entire project. Yh yh the fans may hate the game, but guess what.... you will still sell enough to at least make your money back. As i said, they know exactly wht they are doing. You think Dice didn't know they had a broken mess of a game when they released BF4? You really believe all that "we are sorry about the issues a small number of our fans are getting, we are working tirelessly to resolve them" BS that they say? They probably had that line written out before the game even released. OLr you thin activation doesn't know that some levels or reskinned for their COD games? 

Believe, these companies aren't stupid, they have a very good idea what they are doing or at least trying to do. Things only go royally wrong for them when consumers actually wisen up. Eg. Look at the XBO. After giving shit to their fans since 2010, MS probably figured that they could get away with what they were trying to do last year. It backfired. But damn, if they had succeeded, they would have had a stranglehold on the undustry like nothing before it. Personally, I think it was just bad PR on their part... if i was in charge and wanted to do what they were doing I would have gone about it differently, and could have gotten away with it. Hell, by the time I am done gamers would thanking me for ripping them off.



kowenicki said:
Intrinsic said:
If all of them wanting your money makes them bad, then every single company that directly requires that you pay for something is bad.

Guess the exception here is a company like google. Then again, maybe they are the worst kinda bad, cause they are so good at being bad that you think everything they do for you is free.

Who am I kidding, all companies are bad..... some are just worse than others. A good PR department, would know how to make everything a company does seem like they are doing you a favor. "LOOOOK!!!, We are proud to give you this here new car for $30k (forget that it only costs us $10k to make it) and we will fix your transmission for free if it goes bad in the next 5yrs". Transmission goes bad in 3rd year; "we are sorry we don't cover your transmission going bad from the pothole you went into, we meant we would cover it if it goes bad while parked in ur driveway"


We agree on that then.  Google are one of the most underhand and cunning companies of all time imo.  People just dont see it for some reason.

Well thats because Google is infalliable, its not a company, its a lifestyle. It's competitors should just stop hurting themselves.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Weird thing is, these companies hire PR groups for thousands of dollars every year to spread good news about them both in ways that everyone knows about and in ways which maybe not everyone knows are going on, I just think it's nice that there are people willing to do work which could see them earning a massive salary for free based on the piece of plastic under their TV set at home, it's commendable.

I mean I like Tesco here, but I don't jump around online during things like the horse meat scandal posting pics of me eating their burgers calling them meals of the year, surely people who do eat proverbial horse meat on here and post about how tasty it is realize that they're never really going to convince people it's not horse meat tho?

You should always be able to mention bad points about what you like, I love the shit outta the Vita but if anyone asks would I recommend shelling out for it I have to mention stuff like memory card costs or somethings which are just a plain pain in the ass for users like the content manager in terms of what a huge step back it is from the psp.

Great OP tho, if anyone would consider it for even a moment before clicking submit when about to flame or defend something during the next few weeks of E3 it would be worth your while having wrote it up.



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I wonder what myself from a year ago would say about this... Probably that there's too many exceptions when it comes to the PR stuff.

As for me now, I completely agree with you!



Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

1. Assume all PR is bullshit until proven true. The exception is in absolutes. In the case of an absolute, the chance that its bullshit is a percentage of how many absolutes have been made plus how many absolute claims have been proven false. Ignore outlandish statements that are obvious hypebole.

2. The companies you defend are not in absolute control of everything they touch. The result that you see is not neccessarily inacted or even supported by the company you defend. Actually, think about the ramifications of the result and whether or not this will benefit the company overall. Then, you can estimate the likelyhood of the company you defend actually  supporting the result. This is of course assuming that you don't have access to the information of how this result actually came to be.

3. Realize that people have long memories, but the most recent ones are the most pungent. If the company you defend is misbehaving, it is pointless to defend their actions or the company on its merit. The only reasonable course of action is to ascertain what will be the next best move.

4. Do not ignore the issues of Companies you defend, especially if you consistently focus on the weakness of that companies competitors. It requries a full picture for true analysis and evaluative judgement.

==================================

1. Assume all PR is bullshit until proven true. This is regardless of the source. Furthermore, Policies that the Company you attack that you disagree with are mistakes. Since the Companies you defend are fallible, so to are the Companies you attack. Give them a chance to correct there mistakes. But do not assume that all corrections are positive.

2. The companies you attack are not in absolute control of everything they touch. The result that you see is not necessarily inacted or even supported by the company you are attacking. Actually, think about the amount of control a company has on an actions, and whether or not they would support this action to begin with. However, inactiveness in changing a policy has the equivalent result of support a policy.

3. Realize that people have long memores, bu the most recent ones are the most pungent. If the company you attack is behaving correctly, it is pointless to speculate disaster or recall past indescretions because these can equal be attributed to this companies competitors. Instead, do not attack that company because you don't want to congrajulate it but plotting its downfall is in even less taste.

4. Do not ignore the strengths of Companies you attack, especially if you consistently focus on the strengths of the companies you defend. It requires a full picture for true analysis and evaluative judgement.

Source

Well said, well said indeed! This is something every gamer..No every person should try to adhere to. One cannot truly understand, appreciate, or respect something unless they acknowledge their weaknesses and flaws. One must also acknowledge the environment which cultivated their strengths which includes the competition generated by their competitors. It's easy to hate something, hate is inspired by fear and fear is inspired by ignorance and misunderstanding. However that doesn't mean criticizing something is the same as hating them. It is something completely different to love enough to openly acknowledge and constructively criticize the flaws in the thing you love. Without vocal constructive criticism they can never grow and improve. That's why they say you can never truly understand your enemy until you love them because once you do fully understand them you will love them like you love yourself. It is alright to criticize and it is alright to defend. The problem comes when either is done blindly and in a non-constructive fashion. If one criticizes something they should do so constructively and do everything possible to fully understand what it is they are criticizing. The same with defending anything, one must be aware of what it is they are defending and not deny the things about it that need improvement or how to improve it.



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kowenicki said:

Is this a joke?

Google is the very epitome of a perfect marketing COMPANY.

They exist to collect data and "sell" that data.

fixed. You misspelled Google.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

kowenicki said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
kowenicki said:

Is this a joke?

Google is the very epitome of a perfect marketing COMPANY.

They exist to collect data and "sell" that data.

fixed. You misspelled Google.

Sorry. no

Google is a marketing company.

Can you break down its revenue and profits for me.

Just because Google is #1 there is no reason to hate them. Join the one true way. Google it.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Technically Google is a networking company. Marketing companies make ads, commercials, ect. Meanwhile Google simply helps people and data find each other. lets say a guy has a friend come up to him and says "hey I'm selling my car, you know anyone that is looking to buy one?" then the guy goes, "Yeah I know a few people, but I also know a few people looking to sell their cars too. If you pay me this amount I'll make sure you are the first person I introduce them to.". Does that make the guy a marketer? Nope, he's just a guy making introductions. A marketer would talk up the car, make it appealing, and do everything possible so the consumer buys that car. The guy or google doesn't give a shit if anyone buys the car, they are just helping people find what they need and introduce people to others that have it.



http://www.youtube.com/v/AoOOpLpcF28 http://www.youtube.com/v/CphFZGH5030

All Hail the Jester King. The King is back, and I am still a dirty girl prof ;)