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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - DirectX 12 Might Not Have A Big Effect On Xbox One, Mostly Targeted For PC

Skeetys said:
I think the only person who ever thought it would make a difference, even when it is added in 2016 was that misterx kid. He also thought there were hidden chips inside the xbone board..


Hidden chips... no... just no...




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Only time will tell...



I think that's what everyone expected. Things look good already on the Xbox One and if it kicks it up another 20% or so that would be even nicer. (I remember seeing that number hinted at with the GPU somewhere.)

But there is no way it's going to make things worse. Plus having a common API over all platforms just helps development. And puts more pressure on Steam to make their software better.

DX 9 has largely been the norm until quite recently. Looks like DX 12 may takes it place for a while.

PS I wonder what would be the min hardware for DX13. Probably some major changes before that comes around.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

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Honestly if MS launched with a console graphics API that was worse than the one they had in their last console (which already had most of the "new" performance improving features in DX12, and are only improvements on the PC side that had a bloated and outdated API stack) then they have no business making consoles in the first place. Really the fact that people actually thought that MS could be that incompetent is shocking.

Consoles have always had lean APIs that offered direct control over the hardware and memory management. And they have never needed the layers of obfuscation and code translation that makes draw calls expensive on PC. Because they only exist in PC APIs because they have to support lots of different hardware architectures. I refuse to believe that MS would ship with an API with completely unnecessary API overhead for no benefit that would take extra work to implement.



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Interesting that they mention resolution difference then mention DX12. DX 11.2 was the update in February for Xbox One that bought the tiling technique for the console so the ESRAM can fit up to 6gb of data on 32 mb. And this is why 3rd parties arent hitting 1080p yet. They have to programme the ram differently and they arent taking the time to bother with it ( well at least some arent ). Games like Quantum Break which blow 3rd party games away are 1080p native. 

DX 12 will have some liitle effects on Xbox One, but the biggest changes we will see are from first party developers who use Tiling Techniques on the Xbox One fast ESRAM. I expect 1080p 60 FPS Halo 5 to look absolutely out of this world. As will Gears Of War 4. Quantum Break alreay looks best next gen visuals so far and appears 1080p native.



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selnor1983 said:

Interesting that they mention resolution difference then mention DX12. DX 11.2 was the update in February for Xbox One that bought the tiling technique for the console so the ESRAM can fit up to 6gb of data on 32 mb. And this is why 3rd parties arent hitting 1080p yet. They have to programme the ram differently and they arent taking the time to bother with it ( well at least some arent ). Games like Quantum Break which blow 3rd party games away are 1080p native. 

DX 12 will have some liitle effects on Xbox One, but the biggest changes we will see are from first party developers who use Tiling Techniques on the Xbox One fast ESRAM. I expect 1080p 60 FPS Halo 5 to look absolutely out of this world. As will Gears Of War 4. Quantum Break alreay looks best next gen visuals so far and appears 1080p native.

Tiled Resources or Partialy Resident Textures as AMD called it when they implemented it in their GPUs years ago. Has nothing to do with resolution. It is a technique for texture streaming, id Tech 5's Meagtexture is a software implementation of Virtual Textures which if you played Quake Wars, RAGE, or Wolfenstein you would know it has it's drawbacks along with it's advantages of lower RAM footprint. If you have a small cache for tiles then you will have lots of pop-in as you stream in textures. It doesn't make the textures any smaller it just allows you to more effeciantly break it up and stream into memory from disc.

And tiled rendering for the framebuffer which will effect resolution is also not a new technique. a few X360 games used it to manage the EDRAM there already. Frostbyte 2 (and I assume 3) for example uses a tiled rendering aproach there.



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DX12 is so advanced that it can alter hardware through software with software created DX12 nanobots.







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so i know nothing of programming at what not but if it reduces the time to port a game from pc to xbox by using dx12 then wouldn't that give them more time to optimize and what to get it to the same resolution as the ps4(yes the ps4 revision will still be the better version)



zarx said:
selnor1983 said:

Interesting that they mention resolution difference then mention DX12. DX 11.2 was the update in February for Xbox One that bought the tiling technique for the console so the ESRAM can fit up to 6gb of data on 32 mb. And this is why 3rd parties arent hitting 1080p yet. They have to programme the ram differently and they arent taking the time to bother with it ( well at least some arent ). Games like Quantum Break which blow 3rd party games away are 1080p native. 

DX 12 will have some liitle effects on Xbox One, but the biggest changes we will see are from first party developers who use Tiling Techniques on the Xbox One fast ESRAM. I expect 1080p 60 FPS Halo 5 to look absolutely out of this world. As will Gears Of War 4. Quantum Break alreay looks best next gen visuals so far and appears 1080p native.

Tiled Resources or Partialy Resident Textures as AMD called it when they implemented it in their GPUs years ago. Has nothing to do with resolution. It is a technique for texture streaming, id Tech 5's Meagtexture is a software implementation of Virtual Textures which if you played Quake Wars, RAGE, or Wolfenstein you would know it has it's drawbacks along with it's advantages of lower RAM footprint. If you have a small cache for tiles then you will have lots of pop-in as you stream in textures. It doesn't make the textures any smaller it just allows you to more effeciantly break it up and stream into memory from disc.

And tiled rendering for the framebuffer which will effect resolution is also not a new technique. a few X360 games used it to manage the EDRAM there already. Frostbyte 2 (and I assume 3) for example uses a tiled rendering aproach there.

No. You are confusing IDs tech. It isnt the same. Here this explains it better. The 360 took around 2 years fo devs to work the technique out properly on that machine. Xbox One is the same. Also its important to note that the ESRAM makes the Xbox One much more capable of doing Cloud compute over PS4 on normal connnection speeds. Also noo games so far  out use Tiling techniqus on Xbox One.

There’s been a lot of discussion about the Xbox One’s 32 MB eSRAM and how it is a limiter to the console’s overall performance. Although some developers such as Capybara Games deny any bottlenecks with the technology, there is still a feeling of it being limiting despite potentially being able to store up to 6 GB of tiled textures when used in conjunction with DirectX 11.2.

Interestingly, for a normal forward renderer, 32 MB is the exact amount of space necessary to store one 4x MSAA 32 bpp 1080p frame buffer. However, due to the need to output more than just the pixel colour with the renderer, you’ll require multiple buffers. This explains why the anti-aliasing and resolution needs to be turned down for some games on the Xbox One – the 32 MB eSRAM is somewhat of a limiting factor.

The Xbox 360 had the same trouble with eDRAM and solved it by rendering only specific portions of a scene at a time, exchanging different buffers as necessary. Tiled resources are better, since you can avoid drawing your scene twice, but are difficult to properly implement. So a creative approach in the case of first person shooter games, would be to render the bottom half of your screen, which features more objects, using eSRAM while the top half – which is usually empty using the normal VRAM. This allows you to effectively remove less intensive portions from the frame buffer in order to have the eSRAM working on the more complicated bits.

Will this be the de facto solution for the Xbox One, especially since it took developers a while to implement the same approach on the Xbox 360 using eDRAM? It’s unlikely in the beginning stages of the Xbox One’s life cycle, resulting in a drop of resolution and AA, but given a couple of years, we could see some creative use of the eSRAM without a serious hit in performance or visuals.

Why include eSRAM at all if it becomes a limiting factor? Simply due to its bandwidth for tiled texture middleware, which is reportedly 192 GB/s. Also, it appropriately helps make Cloud gaming more possible on normal internet connections thanks to its LZ encode/decode compression abilities. So whether we believe so or not, Microsoft knew what it was doing when it included eSRAM into the Xbox One. We’ll just have to wait and see if devs can deliver the best visual experience possible while taking advantage of the eSRAM’s many benefits.