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Forums - PC - Why 'Watch Dogs' Is Bad News For AMD Users -- And Potentially The Entire PC Gaming Ecosystem

zero129 said:

But then Nvidia could also take the same root AMD does and have their stuff open source the way AMD did with TressFX and Mantle etc.

Not to argue with you, because I'm also against this kind of things, but so far Mantle is AMD and GCN exclusive, with no idea of when it will stop being that way.



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

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dharh said:
crissindahouse said:
dharh said:
This is why on multi-platform titles I almost always go with the console version over the PC version. Sure I usually spend the money to have a decent PC every 2 years.

However, I refuse to play this optimized best for this brand of video card game. Personally the only games I really play on PC are MMOs, games I want to mod, and exclusives. Otherwise it's just not worth the hassle.

Good that we don't have "best on Playstation" and stuff like that on console... I mean, on PC you have at least the same content with every system, on console you get more content on one as on the other console because Sony and Microsoft love to throw their money on the devs. Not to forget that on console, there is also always a platform which get's "the most love" from devs so that you have the games better optimized for one as for the other system. 


That's simply not the case. Just like you have Playstation exclusive content, you also get Gamestop, Amazon and other PC exclusive content stunts based on how or where you buy it.

Devs usually make the most optimized version on the most powerful console, when they don't, I usually don't bother buying that game. 

well, PS3 is stronger as 360 but you still bought something like Skyrim for PS3. Sure, they didn#t deliberately make the PS3 version worse but it still seems as if they didn't really put much time in the PS3 version.



crissindahouse said:
dharh said:

That's simply not the case. Just like you have Playstation exclusive content, you also get Gamestop, Amazon and other PC exclusive content stunts based on how or where you buy it.

Devs usually make the most optimized version on the most powerful console, when they don't, I usually don't bother buying that game. 

well, PS3 is stronger as 360 but you still bought something like Skyrim for PS3. Sure, they didn#t deliberately make the PS3 version worse but it still seems as if they didn't really put much time in the PS3 version.

I bought it for PC as well. Just like I did both Fallout games. I played those games on PS3 first, but then modded the crap out of them on the PC some years later when my PC could handle it with zero optimization crap.

Key thing about me personally. I will happily wait 2-3 years for technology to get cheap enough where I only need a $100-200 video card to play games at high settings on cards that used to cost $300-500. 



A warrior keeps death on the mind from the moment of their first breath to the moment of their last.



zero129 said:
vivster said:
In other news: Sony complains that Xbox exclusives are bad for the industry.

Its not exactly the same thing, AMD hardware is being gimped by devs that use Nvidia GameWorks and makes it very hard for AMD to proper optimize the game after release, but its the devs thats more at fault imo then NVidia since they dont have to use Nvidia GameWorks.

But it would be more like if PS4 used AMD GPU and X1 used Nvidia GPU and we all know that the PS4 GPU is more powerful but since devs are developing using Nvidia GameWorks the games made using that runs much better on the X1 and the is nothing the devs themselfs or Sony can do after release to fix the problem that would make them kinda the same i guess.

It is the exact same from a business standpoint. Developers are choosing to work together exclusively with one hardware manufacturer. Cooperating with developers and basically acquiring exclusive features is a legitimate practice. It existed for decades and so far has apparently not destroyed any industry.

The article only shows one perspective from the standpoint of an AMD executive. Of course he would say that it's bad for the industry. It's his job to say that. What he's not saying is why the developers chose NVIDIA over AMD. Which is a failing on his side. What he's also not mentioning are the exclusive deals and technologies they are using with developers on games that run significantly better on AMD than NVIDIA.

It's called competition and everyone is doing it. No need to call out the apocalypse.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

NVidia got a deal this time... watchdogs is bundle with some cards...



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Odd Ubi would use this Nvidia exclusivity in its code considering the consoles use AMD.

I agree though. Open source and sharing really should be there.



theprof00 said:
How is this allowable???
It feels like it goes completely against fair business practices.
It's one thing to improve an end product to help you sell it better. It's another to prevent your rival from conducting business as usual.
I can't really think of a similar relationship that currently exists.
Anyone care to suggest one?


not something you would recongise by OSI PI has the same policy with my software.  it works to a certain extent ar maintaining a leadership position but it can also hurt them. OSI PI lost several massive accounts to us last year specifically because of their policy to lock out and obfuscate dealing with third party products. 

this is basically the same as MS's launch parity clause.  it seemed like a good idea at the time but it promoted their self destruction. no one wants to do business with those that don't play well with others. 



And now, to add even more gasoline into this fire, I've read a preview for this game's performance without using AA at [H]ardocp, and guess what? If your card has less than 3GB of RAM, forget about enabling Ultra textures... and even the 3GB 780 and 780Ti struggle with it while the 290X handles Ultra with just a minor performance drop

http://hardocp.com/article/2014/05/27/watch_dogs_amd_nvidia_gpu_performance_preview/1



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

If this is really the effect that Gameworks has on 40% of the market, then expect devs to stop supporting it in a couple of years. Pissing off 40% of your customers is not good business for a developer. I suspect Gameworks will be niche by 2016.



JEMC said:

And now, to add even more gasoline into this fire, I've read a preview for this game's performance without using AA at [H]ardocp, and guess what? If your card has less than 3GB of RAM, forget about enabling Ultra textures... and even the 3GB 780 and 780Ti struggle with it while the 290X handles Ultra with just a minor performance drop

http://hardocp.com/article/2014/05/27/watch_dogs_amd_nvidia_gpu_performance_preview/1

Ya...if only that Forbes article included proper GPU testing of this game. The little detail they forgot to mention is how a $330 770 2GB flops hard against a $270-300 R9 280X (and that would mean against a 7950/7970/7970Ghz) at 1080p since it can't run Ultra textures.

While looking at the average frames per second, 780Ti SLI beats R9 290X, the frame latency graphs reveal stuttering on the much more expensive NV setup from Guru3D review:

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/watch_dogs_vga_graphics_performance_benchmark_review,8.html

"The AMD Radeon R9 295 was doing better, very likely due to its larges graphics memory partitions. Mind you that these tests have been performed at Ultra quality."

The problem with GameWorks is that it prevents a developer to accept feedback/recommendations from the competitor. In the end, that hurts 40% of the consumers. If GameWorks worked in conjuction with AMD's Gaming Evolved developer relationships, then gamers would have a maximum amount of features to use as things like TressFX or Forward+ is brand agnostic unlike TXAA and PhysX.