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Forums - Gaming - About the "eigth gen is only a prettier seventh gen" argument

Hynad on 27 May 2014
CladInShadows said:
Hynad said:
CladInShadows said:
Kind of a side note, but people are giving the PS360 generation a lot more credit than it actually deserves. It certainly didn't feel like as much of a generational leap as that from PSX to PS2. HD was being done on PCs for years at that point. So this sudden jump to HD didn't really mean much. And the jump to PS2 meant a jump from 240i (for the most part) to 480i/p anyways.


So, by your argument... Consoles barely ever made any kind of generational leaps since PC was always there much earlier than consoles... -__-

That was only one of my arguments.  Take it as you will.

My other one was that there was a clear increase in resolution from Gen 5 to Gen 6.  So why some people in this thread are making more of a deal in the increase from Gen 6 to 7 is baffling to me.


Hmmm. No. The increase in resolution from the 5th to 6th gen is not really as big as the jump from gen 6 to 7. 

From gen 5: PS games resolution ranged from 256x240 to 640x240 (progressive) = 61440 to 153600 pixels.  With some very rare few games going for 640x480, like Tobal 2 and Internal Section from Squaresoft. 

Gen 6: With the PS2, most games were between 512x447 and 640x480 = 228864 to 307200 pixels. Which ranges from a x5 to only a x2 jump from the prior generation, if you don't take into account the odd 640x480 games from gen 5.

Gen 7: Most games targetted and on most occasions reached a 720p resolution = 921600 pixels. A definite x3 jump.

So yes, the increase in resolution was pretty clear from gen 6 to gen 7. The Wii, being stuck with gen 6 resolution, is a clear illustration of that. Considering how much of a jaggies fest it is to play its games on an HD TV.



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alabtrosMyster on 27 May 2014
artur-fernand said:

All right, that's most likely the most common complaint about the current gen. "All the games are possible on seventh gen consoles, you just have to downgrade the graphics". Time for a time travel:

 


Honestly, I have had that feeling when we first got the ps360 over the og xbox/gcn and PS2, when you make a 3D game you can basically scale it down to fit on any platform, by gradually cutting graphics features, skipping on the target frame rate, maybe controlling a couple less enemies... you could have watch_dogs on the PS2? or at least the og xbox with the hard-drive installation.. you could get a lot of it working with a lot of compromises, after all we had GTA games back then too!

Some of my favorite PS3 games would have been entirely possible on lower specs systems too, the graphics, the scope just made it better... Wipeout HD, could very well be as good without the "HD", the god of war II and Ascenscion could have existed on PS2, in much more simple form, probably the same for the Uncharted and the last of us... all with less details, less animations, much less everything to fit on the DVD and the much smaller memory footprint of the old console.

This concern is not new and it will keep on happening because games are still developped by humans, it takes a lot of money and the right people to develop a game that truly pushes the envelope in the AI or physics department, and then, do you really want your AI to be brilliant when you are in a firefight with 12 guys... they will win if they are even half witted humans... this is not why we play.



DonFerrari on 27 May 2014

Can Infamous permanent destruction be redone on ps3 with graphics equivalent to infamous 2? I seriously doubt. Can you remap killzone drone to play on ps3 not sure.



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d21lewis on 27 May 2014
CladInShadows said:
Hynad said:
CladInShadows said:
Kind of a side note, but people are giving the PS360 generation a lot more credit than it actually deserves. It certainly didn't feel like as much of a generational leap as that from PSX to PS2. HD was being done on PCs for years at that point. So this sudden jump to HD didn't really mean much. And the jump to PS2 meant a jump from 240i (for the most part) to 480i/p anyways.


So, by your argument... Consoles barely ever made any kind of generational leaps since PC was always there much earlier than consoles... -__-

That was only one of my arguments.  Take it as you will.

My other one was that there was a clear increase in resolution from Gen 5 to Gen 6.  So why some people in this thread are making more of a deal in the increase from Gen 6 to 7 is baffling to me.


When I first saw the Xbox 360 dashboard with the ability to customize my soundtracks, jump into online games, chat, download DLC, send messages, etc. (I missed the original Xbox almost entirely), I felt like it was truly next gen.  Call of Duty 2 alone was quite amazing.  When I got my PS4/Xbox One, I was stunned to find that I actually LOST features that I'd relied on with my PS3/360.  So, yeah.



F0X on 27 May 2014

I am being patient. The people who have already bought XB1/PS4 seem like the impatient ones to me.



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CladInShadows on 27 May 2014
Hynad said:
CladInShadows said:
Hynad said:
CladInShadows said:
Kind of a side note, but people are giving the PS360 generation a lot more credit than it actually deserves. It certainly didn't feel like as much of a generational leap as that from PSX to PS2. HD was being done on PCs for years at that point. So this sudden jump to HD didn't really mean much. And the jump to PS2 meant a jump from 240i (for the most part) to 480i/p anyways.


So, by your argument... Consoles barely ever made any kind of generational leaps since PC was always there much earlier than consoles... -__-

That was only one of my arguments.  Take it as you will.

My other one was that there was a clear increase in resolution from Gen 5 to Gen 6.  So why some people in this thread are making more of a deal in the increase from Gen 6 to 7 is baffling to me.


Hmmm. No. The increase in resolution from the 5th to 6th gen is not really as big as the jump from gen 6 to 7. 

From gen 5: PS games resolution ranged from 256x240 to 640x240 (progressive) = 61440 to 153600 pixels.  With some very rare few games going for 640x480, like Tobal 2 and Internal Section from Squaresoft. 

Gen 6: With the PS2, most games were between 512x447 and 640x480 = 228864 to 307200 pixels. Which ranges from a x5 to only a x2 jump from the prior generation, if you don't take into account the odd 640x480 games from gen 5.

Gen 7: Most games targetted and on most occasions reached a 720p resolution = 921600 pixels. A definite x3 jump.

So yes, the increase in resolution was pretty clear from gen 6 to gen 7. The Wii, being stuck with gen 6 resolution, is a clear illustration of that. Considering how much of a jaggies fest it is to play its games on an HD TV.

I don't really want to haul out a ruler and see which leaps were slightly bigger or slightly smaller.  But if you're including the rare 480i games from Gen 5, then you would have to include the rare 720p and 1080i games from the original XBOX.  In that case, the jump was zero from Gen 6 to Gen 7. You're also not taking into account that some PS2/XBOX games were widescreen, and some weren't.  So the numbers can be spun in a variety of ways.

I prefer to take the most common vertical resolutions: 240 >> 480 >> 720

And having been there to witness it happening, the resolution jump from Gen 5 to Gen 6 was just as noticable as that from 6 to 7.  Anyways, we're splitting hairs. I'm just not convinced the jump from 6 to 7 was any more revolutionary than 5 to 6.



CladInShadows on 27 May 2014
d21lewis said:
CladInShadows said:
Hynad said:
CladInShadows said:
Kind of a side note, but people are giving the PS360 generation a lot more credit than it actually deserves. It certainly didn't feel like as much of a generational leap as that from PSX to PS2. HD was being done on PCs for years at that point. So this sudden jump to HD didn't really mean much. And the jump to PS2 meant a jump from 240i (for the most part) to 480i/p anyways.


So, by your argument... Consoles barely ever made any kind of generational leaps since PC was always there much earlier than consoles... -__-

That was only one of my arguments.  Take it as you will.

My other one was that there was a clear increase in resolution from Gen 5 to Gen 6.  So why some people in this thread are making more of a deal in the increase from Gen 6 to 7 is baffling to me.


When I first saw the Xbox 360 dashboard with the ability to customize my soundtracks, jump into online games, chat, download DLC, send messages, etc. (I missed the original Xbox almost entirely), I felt like it was truly next gen.  Call of Duty 2 alone was quite amazing.  When I got my PS4/Xbox One, I was stunned to find that I actually LOST features that I'd relied on with my PS3/360.  So, yeah.

When I play, I'm not really concerned with soundtracks, messaging, etc. I'm focussed on how the game plays and looks.  I know a lot of people like these social features.  I'm just not one of them.  Online games and DLC, however, were possible on the previous generation.  But I do get what you're saying.



d21lewis on 27 May 2014
F0X said:
I am being patient. The people who have already bought XB1/PS4 seem like the impatient ones to me.


I don't know if impatient is the right word.  Personally, I saw something I wanted and it didn't live up to expectations.  That's all.  I've been gaming since the Nes era and this is the first time I've purchased a new consoles and haven't really been excited to play them.  Even my 13 year old nephew that got both consoles for Christmas doesn't bother with them anymore.  There just isn't any excitement.  I think it was Sony's/Microsoft's/Nintendo's responsibility to the gamer to release their new hardware with some compelling software.  It's coming, of course.  But, in the meantime, do we have to pretend we're happy with what we've gotten so far?  Aside from Killer Instinct, every game I own on Xbox One is available on Xbox 360 in a very competent form.  To me that kinda sucks.



OfficerRaichu15 on 27 May 2014

Is it ok to be upset with the 1st parties so far for this gen?
All the consoles have literally no good 1st party exclusives.
Wheres my Halo!
Wheres my Last Guardian!
Wheres my Star Fox!
I will be satisfied when they bring me these



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CladInShadows on 27 May 2014
d21lewis said:
F0X said:
I am being patient. The people who have already bought XB1/PS4 seem like the impatient ones to me.


I don't know if impatient is the right word.  Personally, I saw something I wanted and it didn't live up to expectations.  That's all.  I've been gaming since the Nes era and this is the first time I've purchased a new consoles and haven't really been excited to play them.  Even my 13 year old nephew that got both consoles for Christmas doesn't bother with them anymore.  There just isn't any excitement.  I think it was Sony's/Microsoft's/Nintendo's responsibility to the gamer to release their new hardware with some compelling software.  It's coming, of course.  But, in the meantime, do we have to pretend we're happy with what we've gotten so far?  Aside from Killer Instinct, every game I own on Xbox One is available on Xbox 360 in a very competent form.  To me that kinda sucks.

Just another consequence of the ever growing time and money requirement for video games these days.