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Forums - Gaming - About the "eigth gen is only a prettier seventh gen" argument

Hynad on 27 May 2014
Norris2k said:
Hynad said:
PigPen said:

Yep, shooters & racers.


Heavy Rain
Demon's Souls
Beyond: Two Souls
God of War
Puppeteer
Ratchet & Clank
Infamous
Journey
Flower
Little Big Planet
Echochrome
Tales of Xilia
DC Universe Online
Novastrike
Rain
Ni No Kuni
MLB: The Show


Should I keep going? I didn't even include shooters or racers. And I haven't even started with the multiplatform not available on Nintendo platforms... And I only did the PS3. That list is already as diverse as what Nintendo offers on their home consoles. If not more. What will happen when I also include all the non exclusive?

Now, why would the diversity go away for the PS4 and XBO? Developers will keep on trying new things. Be it first or third parties, or indies. The variety will be there, just as it's always been.

In term of genre, the variety you show in this list game is great. But for someone that loved Heavy Rain (my choice lol), where are the other games in the genre ? For lots of games you've shown, that's one of the very few attempt in the genre. Does even every specific genre put together compete with fps  in term of number of game ? I'm not talking about if it's better than Nintendo, just I didn't feel I had a lot of variety if it's just for a game here and there. And please add Valkyria Chronicle in your list next time ;)

It's the same on Nintendo's side. They release only a few of each genre of games every generations. And sometime, they even skip a gen. Where was the Mario Sports games on the Wii? Wii Sports wasn't really a good replacement for Super Mario Strikers, was it? And what about StarFox?

There sure are genres that are way more represented in the industry. But when people say that the PS and XBox consoles only offer FPSs and racers, it just tells me that they're looking at the libraries with horse blinders. There are many RPGs, Platformers, adventure games, puzzle games, etc, on those. FPS is just the genre that gets some of the most attention. Because that's still the genre that a majority of gamers craves most, sadly enough. 

Note: Yeah, I forgot about the gem that Valkyria Chronicles is. ^_-



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J_Allard on 27 May 2014

Much longer previous gen than anticipated
Much weaker leap in console power than in recent memory
Much more ports of last gen console games and PC titles than ever before
Typical time required for developers to get a hang of next gen/move on from last gen

It all adds up to a generation that thus far has been understandably disappointing for some.



bananaking21 on 27 May 2014
pokoko said:
I hope no one is seriously making that argument. The difference in RAM alone opens up what developers can do by a significant degree.

I remember one game designer last gen talking about how they'd come up with ideas for an encounter only to have the programmers come back and say, "nope, this can't be done, there isn't enough memory," and they'd have to change the event or scale it back. I believe it was the developers of Dishonored who said they kept having to cut down levels and remove enemies to make things fit on last gen consoles.

There will be games this gen that cannot run on last gen hardware without large-scale changes to game-play. I'd be shocked if anyone seriously disputes that.


i remember even Naughty Dog said RAM held them back with TLoU. 



Ryudo on 27 May 2014
Intrinsic said:
NightDragon83 said:

See: "law of diminishing returns". So far the 8th gen represents the smallest inter-generational leap in terms of graphics, hardware and gameplay features that we've seen.

8-16 bit went from a handful of colors, tiny sprites and just two buttons to mega sprites, hundreds of colors, mode 7, and 6 buttons.

16-32/64 bit went from improved 2D graphics to fully realized 3D graphics and CD quality sound, more buttons, and 360 degree analog control.

You conveninetly skipped a generation to validate your point?

We had the 8bit generation (NES: Super mario world, duck hunt, metal gear) then we had the 16bit gen (SNES: contra 3, final fight, street fighter 2, mortal kombat)

If you look at the above mentioned generations, while inroads were made into mode 7, it was still all 2d gaming. just with better sound, sprites and more colours on screen. 

The jump from PS3/360 to PS4/XBO is exactly the same thing with the jump from the 8bit era to the 16bit era with the differences being more in the details and how much more of those details and to what level they can be rendered than a complete generational shift in game design. If you really wanna get into it, we can actually go even further gack all the way to the commodore, amstrad, amiga...etc and you will see that in the past 30yrs of gaming there has been only two evolutionary shifts. 2D to 3D and then 3D to 3D HD. 

Every generation also brings in something extra, like the example you made about more buttons and online gaming, last gen brought it motion gaming (which in truth was just carried over from the PS2 gen) and a more expansive network. This gen so far has just built on all those tings and at least with the PS4 wil be bringing streaming gaming in PSnow (which in truth is just built on something that existed in the previous gen too) and VR. And of course we have mobile app supported stuff.

Personally, i think gamers today just whine, bitch and complain more than ever to the point where they write a lot of stuff that actually aren't based on any facts. Actually, they go as far as twist the actual facts to paint the exact kinda picture they want for what reason I have no idea.... maybe its cool or something.

And if we really went into detail especially on the hardware side of things, you will see how much rea;ly gets added on....

Super Mario World was a Launch game for SNES



Richard_Feynman on 27 May 2014

Thank you for this thread!



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Xenostar on 27 May 2014
NightDragon83 said:

See: "law of diminishing returns". So far the 8th gen represents the smallest inter-generational leap in terms of graphics, hardware and gameplay features that we've seen.

8-16 bit went from a handful of colors, tiny sprites and just two buttons to mega sprites, hundreds of colors, mode 7, and 6 buttons.

16-32/64 bit went from improved 2D graphics to fully realized 3D graphics and CD quality sound, more buttons, and 360 degree analog control.

32/64 - 128 bit saw even more advanced 3D graphics, improved storage mediums, and for the first time fully realized online gameplay on 3 out of the 4 major consoles of the gen.

128 bit - last gen saw probably the most dramatic jump in visuals between generations as the Movie, TV and entertainment industry switched from SD to HD, and the online experience for consoles became even more robust and borderline PC-like as gamers could now use their consoles' internet capabilities for so much more than just playing games online. Not to mention the fully realization of motion controls in gaming after years of failed experiments.

So far this generation in terms of hardware, gameplay and multimedia features has literally everything the last gen had, just with prettier visuals. The Wii U is literally an extension of the Wii (it even uses the same exact controllers for multiplayer), the XB1 is the same as the 360 only with Kinect 2.0, and the PS4 is the same as the PS3 only with better developer-friendly architecture. So far we have not seen any major leaps hardware or gameplay wise in the 8th gen as we've seen in previous generations.


Drop your Bit Tags, There wrong and also have nothing to do with the power in the consoles.

PS2 was 128 bit as was PS3, but 360 was 64 bit.

Unless we start talking about GPUs then 360 was 256 bit, but this is changing the comparison, which is what sega did with dreamcast when they wrote 128bit on its lid, it was refering to GPU not CPU. The dreamcast was actually a 32bit machine.

Both PS4 and XOne are now 64bit in terms of CPU. Doesnt mean there 3 gen old machines.

So as you can see its silly to compare graphical capabilities when listing the CPU transfer size.



Richard_Feynman on 27 May 2014
Intrinsic said:

Personally, i think gamers today just whine, bitch and complain more than ever to the point where they write a lot of stuff that actually aren't based on any facts. Actually, they go as far as twist the actual facts to paint the exact kinda picture they want for what reason I have no idea.... maybe its cool or something.

And if we really went into detail especially on the hardware side of things, you will see how much rea;ly gets added on....


Yep - same here.

I believe the gamer is literally the worst fan/supporter/enthusiast in existence.



Richard_Feynman on 27 May 2014
ICStats said:

Umm, I welcome the prettier graphics. It's about time we got graphics that caught up with technology, and the PS4 games are a visual treat, load faster, and online features are better. You should not forget about all the other enhancements with Gen 8 beside the prettier graphics.  It's just all around a better console to play on.

Plus who wants to play on 2006 tech forever, or even worse on Wii standard def?

I get that as long as there are cross-gen games you don't really "have" to upgrade, but before long Gen 7 will stop getting ports and you will have to upgrade anyway just to play regular new games.   So what are you saving in the long term other than your enjoyment right now?  For me it wouldn't save me much in the long run to keep buying new games on PS/360 instead of on PS4. New games are still $60, and you just get the better version on PS4, which is a better treat and will keep it's value longer.


Yay. Another reasonable post.

If only there were more...



Richard_Feynman on 27 May 2014
PigPen said:
It is a shitty generation, and not because of Nintendo either. The much over hyped PS4 is not the next gen I know most of you where looking for. While they're much better consoles then last gen I'm underwhelmed. Watch Dogs run throughout a whole city and you won't find one kid. Call Of Duty just look like a blown up version of last gen. I'm not that much impressed. One thing I can say about Nintendo though, you're going to get a variety of games despite its sells.


We get it (also from the Order thread): You find all the game companies are performing unacceptable practices now and this is the worst generation every. And gaming is ruined.

I sure hope you won't spend the next 6 years complaining about it on the internet. 



bigtakilla on 27 May 2014

Not true with all games. Maybe Mario World, but how about the games that used the shoulder buttons, or the othertwo buttons (x ad y). then shift to N64, those games were 3D, that gen competely revolutionized th way we play games. No way we could put them on snes in any shape or form. Then GC? Dual analog sticks, shoulder buttons and trigger buttons, this gen refined 3D gameplay. Wii was motion controls. No way could we put these on GC. Wii U, gamepad (which allowed for the relocation of hud, drag and drop items, map, settings adjusting, ect) touch screen, headsetless communication, first Nintendo online stable console.