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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Wii U rides on Mario Kart

PigPen said:
Hedra42 said:

Here are some interesting facts:

Wii U (according to VGC) sold about 3.1 million from end of March 2013 to end of March 2014.
Nintendo are predicting sales of 3.6 million from 1 April to 31 March 2015, and that's with MK8 and SSB.

  This doesn't suggest that they're expecting these two games to make an enormous impact generally, (i.e., they're not expecting MK8 to shift millions of consoles)

Looking back at the previous games in the series

For an install base of 33 million, MK64 sold 10 million
For an install base of 22 million, MKDD sold 7 million
For an install base of 100 million, MK Wii sold 34 million

In all three cases, roughly one third of console owners bought Mario Kart, and that Mario Kart was introduced to a lot of casual gamers through the Wii.

It's interesting to note, however, that of all the Wii games, MK Wii is the only Wii game to have exceeded 1 million for the year ended March 2014. 1.27 million to be exact, (source - Nintendo supplementary information doc) which almost matches up with VGC sales of 1.25 million Wiis for the same period. Okay, so that might mean that there are a lot of MKWii bundles still out there, but it doesn't change the fact that for just about every Wii that was sold in the last 12 months, a copy of MKWii was sold too.

What does this tell us? Not much, beyond that MK8 will probably sell roughly between 3 and 3.5 million copies by this time next year (one third of an install base of about 10 million based on Nintendo's hardware predictions.), that Mario Kart is a highly popular game and that it will be the MK8 hardware bundle that entices the casual gamer into buying the Wii U in the end. By how much is anybody's guess, but judging by their prediction, Nintendo don't appear to be putting all their hopes on it.


By this time next year?  It will sell 3.5 million way before then.

I'm hoping that it will, and with the bundle launching at the same time, there's a fair chance that it might.

But based on past performance, where one third of console owners have bought Mario Kart in each of the last three generations, as well as Nintendo's hardware projections for the next 12 months, 3.5 million is a reasonable estimate for MK8 for this time next year. Put another way, I wouldn't expect it to do any less than that.



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ps4tw said:
Kasz216 said:
ps4tw said:

Who cares how much it sells when the console its selling on is dead...Anyway stop reframing the argument. The title of the thread is "Wii U rides on Mario Kart". The point is can Mario Kart can save the Wii U? The average person doesn't care for it, so it won't save anything. 


Mario Kart Wii has sold nearly 35 Million copies.

If average people care about ANY videogames, Mario Kart is surely among them.

What competition did the Wii offer to Mario Karts if you wanted a competitive, social (easy to pick up) game? The majority of people didn't buy MK because it was MK but because it simply had no competition and therefore was the best choice. Otherwise how can you explain the sales of MK on the GC? Same goes for SB on the GC. Nintendo has a dedicated following, but that following is not growing so 1st party titles will have a high uptake but the games will not boost sales of the console for any extended period of time. 


Wii didnt have other competitive, social (easy to pick up) games? 

Wii Sports, Wii Party, Wii Play, Mario Party, New Super Mario Bros Wii, Super Smash Bros Brawl, Mario & Sonic Olympics, Just Dance, Guitar Hero, all these games fit the description u gave.

With that said I agree that games like Mario Kart & Smash Bros wont change Wii U's fortunes by any drastic measure, of course they will sell well to current and future Wii U owners but wont cause sales to skyrocket outside of possibly a few weeks at launch.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Kasz216 said:

How do I explain what... that they sold well? Considering the dynamics behind the Wii Sales, yes, you need to explain what demographics are involved.

A game can't get past 2 million on a system without broad base average appeal. According to who? I'm guessing that figure is completely arbitrary?

As for effecting how the system sold,  I'd guess though many casual average people bought the gamecube specifically for those games. What basis are you using for that guess?

Gamecube launched strong.  Well stronger then it's sales deserved.  

It's a big reason why Nintendo decided to hold back those games when the Wii Launched... because those games DO move the needle with the average audience. Define the "average" audience, and why so far no game has succeeded in moving the WiiU, more so when we compare 2D Mario on Wii to WiiU.

As for like super extender permanent software increases.  A signle game never sustains console sales long term by itself.   It takes a marathon of software.  The WiiU has plenty of games out so far, so why would this one suddenly tip everything?

Games like Call of Duty have yearly releases.  Had they not, i imagine you'd see an identical effect.


Questions in bold.



zorg1000 said:
ps4tw said:

What competition did the Wii offer to Mario Karts if you wanted a competitive, social (easy to pick up) game? The majority of people didn't buy MK because it was MK but because it simply had no competition and therefore was the best choice. Otherwise how can you explain the sales of MK on the GC? Same goes for SB on the GC. Nintendo has a dedicated following, but that following is not growing so 1st party titles will have a high uptake but the games will not boost sales of the console for any extended period of time. 


Wii didnt have other competitive, social (easy to pick up) games? 

Wii Sports, Wii Party, Wii Play, Mario Party, New Super Mario Bros Wii, Super Smash Bros Brawl, Mario & Sonic Olympics, Just Dance, Guitar Hero, all these games fit the description u gave.

With that said I agree that games like Mario Kart & Smash Bros wont change Wii U's fortunes by any drastic measure, of course they will sell well to current and future Wii U owners but wont cause sales to skyrocket outside of possibly a few weeks at launch.


Blending genres makes no sense. I'm not going to compare Forza to CoD because both have online multiplayer. Racing is a simple concept everyone understands. What karting competition did MK have? Completely agree though that the games will sell very well to existing WiiU owners, just as SB did on GC.



ps4tw said:
zorg1000 said:
ps4tw said:

What competition did the Wii offer to Mario Karts if you wanted a competitive, social (easy to pick up) game? The majority of people didn't buy MK because it was MK but because it simply had no competition and therefore was the best choice. Otherwise how can you explain the sales of MK on the GC? Same goes for SB on the GC. Nintendo has a dedicated following, but that following is not growing so 1st party titles will have a high uptake but the games will not boost sales of the console for any extended period of time. 


Wii didnt have other competitive, social (easy to pick up) games? 

Wii Sports, Wii Party, Wii Play, Mario Party, New Super Mario Bros Wii, Super Smash Bros Brawl, Mario & Sonic Olympics, Just Dance, Guitar Hero, all these games fit the description u gave.

With that said I agree that games like Mario Kart & Smash Bros wont change Wii U's fortunes by any drastic measure, of course they will sell well to current and future Wii U owners but wont cause sales to skyrocket outside of possibly a few weeks at launch.


Blending genres makes no sense. I'm not going to compare Forza to CoD because both have online multiplayer. Racing is a simple concept everyone understands. What karting competition did MK have? Completely agree though that the games will sell very well to existing WiiU owners, just as SB did on GC.

the post i quoted said "competitive, social (easy to pick up) games", u didnt specifically say racing. But anywho according to vgchartz there were 101 racing games on Wii with combined sales of over 57 million. Mario Kart sold well over half that amount, that game alone vastly oustold the other 100 racing games on Wii. U cant say Mario Kart didnt have competition just because it absolutely dominated.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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I believe Mario kart wont do anything



...not much time to post anymore, used to be awesome on here really good fond memories from VGchartz...

PSN: Skeeuk - XBL: SkeeUK - PC: Skeeuk

really miss the VGCHARTZ of 2008 - 2013...

zorg1000 said:
ps4tw said:

Blending genres makes no sense. I'm not going to compare Forza to CoD because both have online multiplayer. Racing is a simple concept everyone understands. What karting competition did MK have? Completely agree though that the games will sell very well to existing WiiU owners, just as SB did on GC.

the post i quoted said "competitive, social (easy to pick up) games", u didnt specifically say racing. But anywho according to vgchartz there were 101 racing games on Wii with combined sales of over 57 million. Mario Kart sold well over half that amount, that game alone vastly oustold the other 100 racing games on Wii. U cant say Mario Kart didnt have competition just because it absolutely dominated.


Let's not avoid details - how many of those racers were shovelware? It didn't have competition. If you wanted an easy to pick up, social game, MK was one of the first to get on the list. Anyway, this argument is moot as MK will not have any lasting effect on sales and the game sales will mostly go to already existing customers rather than new ones. So with that being said, as MK won't save the WiiU, nor will SB, can we really see Nintendo supporting this console till 2017?



ps4tw said:
zorg1000 said:
ps4tw said:

Blending genres makes no sense. I'm not going to compare Forza to CoD because both have online multiplayer. Racing is a simple concept everyone understands. What karting competition did MK have? Completely agree though that the games will sell very well to existing WiiU owners, just as SB did on GC.

the post i quoted said "competitive, social (easy to pick up) games", u didnt specifically say racing. But anywho according to vgchartz there were 101 racing games on Wii with combined sales of over 57 million. Mario Kart sold well over half that amount, that game alone vastly oustold the other 100 racing games on Wii. U cant say Mario Kart didnt have competition just because it absolutely dominated.


Let's not avoid details - how many of those racers were shovelware? It didn't have competition. If you wanted an easy to pick up, social game, MK was one of the first to get on the list. Anyway, this argument is moot as MK will not have any lasting effect on sales and the game sales will mostly go to already existing customers rather than new ones. So with that being said, as MK won't save the WiiU, nor will SB, can we really see Nintendo supporting this console till 2017?


i assume alot were shovelware but things like Sonic Racing, Need for Speed and Excite Truck/Bots were legit games that were absolutely dominated.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

ps4tw said:
mysteryman said:

How cute. A word to the wise; the forums are full of older gamers, don't bother with an Ad Hominem like that unless you're sure you aren't the kid.

As for your ever-changing argument:

ps4tw said:
mysteryman said:

Do you have any examples of games selling >9.45m without broad appeal?

Yeah, smash bros on the GC. Console barely sold, but that game did.

By that logic, top-selling games on systems that sold similarly well (Halo 2 on XBOX for example) don't have broad appeal. This is what you are saying with the fallacious logic that you are employing.

ps4tw said:

you'll find that those who buy Mario Kart will also have 3D Mario, DK, pikmin etc because there really isn't competition.

You assume that Nintendo's games are purchased purely out of bind loyalty; have you considered that they may be, just maybe, actually good games?

The lack of competition is also bunk, there are plenty of racing games, even kart racers, on Nintendo systems. Mario Kart sales are a cut above the rest, even Nintendo's other racing franchises. This actually suggests the opposite to your claims.


All I need to pick up on is that if they are good games, then why has the GC and WiiU done so badly?

How many quality racing games are there on the Wii? Anything like Forza etc? No. Grid? No. Only a single karting game among a pile of shovelware. You can try to claim "omg dey be soooo good games" but that doesnt explain the shitty sales for the N64, GC and WiiU. Fact is Mario Kart remains vastly unchanged for two decades and karting games on other consoles have bombed. The problem is you need to admit that two audiences bought the wii - the hardcore Nintendo fans and a bunch of flittering casual gamers, the latter being the vast bulk of Wii purchasers. Do you accept that? Do you accept that casual gamers don't care about Nintendo and just go with whatever is in?

You keep going off on tangents. We're talking about high-selling games (not) having broad appeal (and how it somehow only applies to Nintendo).

There  were of plenty of NFS titles on the Wii, but more importantly kart-racers which directly compete with Mario Kart, which contradicts your argument that there was no competition. Sonic Racing sold very well, and was a quality title. Also, ExciteTruck didn't exactly set any sales records, it's a casual racing Nintendo title, why weren't all the Nintendo fans buying that in droves?

Your argument seems now to be, that casuals bought Mario Kart Wii, but this would completely contradict your previous argument, as this implies that the game has broad appeal.



mysteryman said:

You keep going off on tangents. We're talking about high-selling games (not) having broad appeal (and how it somehow only applies to Nintendo).

There  were of plenty of NFS titles on the Wii, but more importantly kart-racers which directly compete with Mario Kart, which contradicts your argument that there was no competition. Sonic Racing sold very well, and was a quality title. Also, ExciteTruck didn't exactly set any sales records, it's a casual racing Nintendo title, why weren't all the Nintendo fans buying that in droves?

Your argument seems now to be, that casuals bought Mario Kart Wii, but this would completely contradict your previous argument, as this implies that the game has broad appeal.


It's not a tangent but you aren't appreciating how it's not as black and white as you claim it is.

Oh come on, any self respecting gamer wouldn't get a NFS game on the Wii - watered down piss-poor ports. And by karters you mean shovelware karting games? Casuals did buy MK Wii, something I've always said, because there was no other genuine competition - you have to remember these casuals have no idea about gaming, releases etc, therefore with the Wii, Nintendo titles were always going to dominate over 3rd market games. They didn't buy MK because they thought it was the best karting game and loved Mario, they bought it because it was probably the only racing game they knew about for the Wii and had good social aspects. 

However, if we remove the casuals from the equation because they don't care about the WiiU, then that means the only people who will buy MK 8 are the die hard Nintendo fans, which are the ones who already have a WiiU - it'll be SB for the GC all over again.