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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony's in a 'bag of hurt' because of Blu-ray

Zappykins on 14 May 2014
mutantsushi said:
Zappykins said:
Sony tried really hard to corner the market, and it worked, they won the 'blu-ray war', but ultimately they sped up the loss to digital distribution. The people and companies that made the DVD's (and then blu-rays) are getting lost in this too. 

Kind of, but Sony can do just as well by a digital download/stream era, as they own major movie/TV/music studios.
They are better off owning BR and getting royalties from it, than paying Toshiba royaties.
As posted here, there is likely to be a future physical standard,
with networks unlikely to make 4k downloads/streams a near term reaity esp. globally,
and Sony will be participating (and likely making said players backwards compatable with BR).

Well, what if they had agree to the standard that everyone else had already agreed too?  Thus no HD DVD/BR war? They single handily refused to allow the adopted standard, and thus cause the format war.  (Much like it was in VHS/Betamax.)  They would have significantly benefited from no format war.  I think much more so than having most of the BR format monopoly.

With the new H.256 standard 4K resolution will be pretty common for anyone with a big TV and a high speed internet connection.  If not now, then easily in a couple years.  Even Netflix is broadcasting shows now in 4K.  There is no reason to go back to physical media.  At least not yet, nor do I think there will be in the foreseeable future.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!
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jacks81x on 14 May 2014
Zappykins said:
mutantsushi said:
Zappykins said:
Sony tried really hard to corner the market, and it worked, they won the 'blu-ray war', but ultimately they sped up the loss to digital distribution. The people and companies that made the DVD's (and then blu-rays) are getting lost in this too. 

Kind of, but Sony can do just as well by a digital download/stream era, as they own major movie/TV/music studios.
They are better off owning BR and getting royalties from it, than paying Toshiba royaties.
As posted here, there is likely to be a future physical standard,
with networks unlikely to make 4k downloads/streams a near term reaity esp. globally,
and Sony will be participating (and likely making said players backwards compatable with BR).

Well, what if they had agree to the standard that everyone else had already agreed too?  Thus no HD DVD/BR war? They single handily refused to allow the adopted standard, and thus cause the format war.  (Much like it was in VHS/Betamax.)  They would have significantly benefited from no format war.  I think much more so than having most of the BR format monopoly.

With the new H.256 standard 4K resolution will be pretty common for anyone with a big TV and a high speed internet connection.  If not now, then easily in a couple years.  Even Netflix is broadcasting shows now in 4K.  There is no reason to go back to physical media.  At least not yet, nor do I think there will be in the foreseeable future.

 

Who is everyone though?  There were more proponents for BR than there were for HD-DVD.  Companies like Panasonic, Samsung, Dolby, Disney, and WB are all members of the BDA.



Zappykins on 14 May 2014
jacks81x said:
Zappykins said:

Well, what if they had agree to the standard that everyone else had already agreed too?  Thus no HD DVD/BR war? They single handily refused to allow the adopted standard, and thus cause the format war.  (Much like it was in VHS/Betamax.)  They would have significantly benefited from no format war.  I think much more so than having most of the BR format monopoly.

With the new H.256 standard 4K resolution will be pretty common for anyone with a big TV and a high speed internet connection.  If not now, then easily in a couple years.  Even Netflix is broadcasting shows now in 4K.  There is no reason to go back to physical media.  At least not yet, nor do I think there will be in the foreseeable future.

Who is everyone though?  There were more proponents for BR than there were for HD-DVD.  Companies like Panasonic, Samsung, Dolby, Disney, and WB are all members of the BDA.

Way before that.  When they were in the talks for one standard, everyone involved - was in agreement except Sony.  Sony refused to agree. 



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!
Aielyn on 14 May 2014
VanceIX said:
tiffac said:
Well good for you guys in 1st world countries if physical media dies, bad for us 3rd world countries with f@cked up internet infrastructure and services.

Can't these games just fit a microSD or something instead of a disc base media?

50gb of game would need a 64gb microSD, which are ungodly expensive. 

They're not THAT expensive.

http://www.dhgate.com/wholesale/64gb+sd+card.html

64 GB microSD with adapter, packaged, and when bought in bulk, costs as low as $4.19 per microSD. And in the meantime, fastest read speed of the BluRay drive in the PS4 is 27 MB/s... this speed cannot be increased in any PS4 unit currently created, and thus all games developed must be built with this speed in mind, even if a PS4 revision has a faster drive. On the other hand, SD speeds are limited by the card itself, and thus games that don't require fast load can save costs by being a lower class, and as costs reduce, higher speeds can be produced without needing update to the system hardware.

The cost of media was a big issue 10-20 years ago, which is why CD/DVD became such a popular medium for video game distribution. It wasn't so much a problem for the high-volume, AAA games, where cost of development were much higher than the cost of manufacturing, but it was problematic for the smaller games...

Now, we have digital distribution for those smaller games. We no longer need to be concerned with that end of the scale. And keep in mind that we're talking about regular SD/microSD, which is a writable medium... it would presumably be cheaper to manufacture non-writable ROM cards (which I believe is within the SD card specifications).



SvennoJ on 14 May 2014
Zappykins said:
jacks81x said:
Zappykins said:
 

Who is everyone though?  There were more proponents for BR than there were for HD-DVD.  Companies like Panasonic, Samsung, Dolby, Disney, and WB are all members of the BDA.

Way before that.  When they were in the talks for one standard, everyone involved - was in agreement except Sony.  Sony refused to agree. 

That is news to me. Maybe Wikipedia is off the mark on this, but it no where mentions that Sony was solely responsible for the format war. It does say blu-ray was developed in 2000, and Toshiba started the competing format in 2002.

Anyway good thing blu-ray won. HD-DVD only had 15GB layers and much lower bit rate.



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SvennoJ on 14 May 2014
Raze said:
That's the price paid for the era of "instant gratification". Physical media, brick and mortar shops, all dying out to digital content. In the time it takes me to write this post, I can go onto Steam, purchase and download a new videogame. I can do the same with movies and streaming shows via Netflix, Hulu Plus, Amazon, Apple TV, etc. I don't have to move anything more than my hands to get it. I don't have to drive to the store, I can buy at 3 AM if I like, and so on.

I called Blu Ray/HD-DVD a bad idea from the getgo. This will be the shortest lived reign of a kind of physical media. Maybe we should just label it "Sony's Folly". Shareholder's are going to have someone's head for only generating 1/3rd of the expected profit.

I don't drive to the store either and buy my movies at 3AM or whenever I want. They get delivered for free at my door step, usually there a day later. Same price or cheaper than buying digital, better quality, extras, no issues with my bandwidth cap.

Physical media is here to stay, as a collector digital is simply not an option for the forseeable future. Not attractive nor possible to download more than 1 or 2 movies a month on top of usual internet usage.

Just checked what my latest batch would have cost in digital
Fargo, The big Lebowski, Miller's crossing, Raising Arizona: paid 44.94 free delivery
iTunes Canada price: 67.96
XBox video price: Only The big lebowski is available to buy in HD at 19.99
PSN price: Only the big Lebowski and Raising Arizon available at 39.98

Streaming instead of renting makes sense. But what happened to all those people that used to buy all those DVDs? Are they buying digital now, or were they just too lazy to bring rentals back that they bought DVDs instead?



Raze on 14 May 2014

Perhaps if you're an avid collector of movies, I can agree there, but it's such a niche population, whereas most people want to watch a movie only once, which is where streaming services come in. Rent it, watch it, review it.



The Carnival of Shadows - Folk Punk from Asbury Park, New Jersey

http://www.thecarnivalofshadows.com 


Zappykins on 15 May 2014
SvennoJ said:
Zappykins said:

Way before that.  When they were in the talks for one standard, everyone involved - was in agreement except Sony.  Sony refused to agree. 

That is news to me. Maybe Wikipedia is off the mark on this, but it no where mentions that Sony was solely responsible for the format war. It does say blu-ray was developed in 2000, and Toshiba started the competing format in 2002.

Anyway good thing blu-ray won. HD-DVD only had 15GB layers and much lower bit rate.

Well, I thought it was common knowledge now.  Like how Sony walked out the the video format talks because they thought if they got their Beta out first then everyone would use it.  Many of my friends got stuck with video players that you couldn't get any movie for.  I really lost a great deal of respect for Sony company after that.  But they did make the best consumer televions for many years. Till Samsung finally passed them.

HD DVD had some advantages over Blu-ray.  Blu-ray can store more, but gosh darn they take forever to load up.  I don't think one was really signifianctly better than the other.  They both use blue lasers and similar tech.  The whole war was stupid and avoidable.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!
DM235 on 15 May 2014
SvennoJ said:
Raze said:
That's the price paid for the era of "instant gratification". Physical media, brick and mortar shops, all dying out to digital content. In the time it takes me to write this post, I can go onto Steam, purchase and download a new videogame. I can do the same with movies and streaming shows via Netflix, Hulu Plus, Amazon, Apple TV, etc. I don't have to move anything more than my hands to get it. I don't have to drive to the store, I can buy at 3 AM if I like, and so on.

I called Blu Ray/HD-DVD a bad idea from the getgo. This will be the shortest lived reign of a kind of physical media. Maybe we should just label it "Sony's Folly". Shareholder's are going to have someone's head for only generating 1/3rd of the expected profit.

I don't drive to the store either and buy my movies at 3AM or whenever I want. They get delivered for free at my door step, usually there a day later. Same price or cheaper than buying digital, better quality, extras, no issues with my bandwidth cap.

Physical media is here to stay, as a collector digital is simply not an option for the forseeable future. Not attractive nor possible to download more than 1 or 2 movies a month on top of usual internet usage.

Just checked what my latest batch would have cost in digital
Fargo, The big Lebowski, Miller's crossing, Raising Arizona: paid 44.94 free delivery
iTunes Canada price: 67.96
XBox video price: Only The big lebowski is available to buy in HD at 19.99
PSN price: Only the big Lebowski and Raising Arizon available at 39.98

Streaming instead of renting makes sense. But what happened to all those people that used to buy all those DVDs? Are they buying digital now, or were they just too lazy to bring rentals back that they bought DVDs instead?

Netflix and other digital streaming services have replaced my buying / renting of DVDs.  I still buy the occasional Blu-ray disc, but much less often then when I bought DVDs.  Price is the biggest factor for not buying more.  I also find that the "Super HD" video setting and Dolby 5.1 audio with Netflix is pretty good.  I did have to max out our internet service just to prevent any overage fees (digital streaming and digital game downloads and updates eat up too much bandwidth).



SvennoJ on 15 May 2014
Zappykins said:

Well, I thought it was common knowledge now.  Like how Sony walked out the the video format talks because they thought if they got their Beta out first then everyone would use it.  Many of my friends got stuck with video players that you couldn't get any movie for.  I really lost a great deal of respect for Sony company after that.  But they did make the best consumer televions for many years. Till Samsung finally passed them.

HD DVD had some advantages over Blu-ray.  Blu-ray can store more, but gosh darn they take forever to load up.  I don't think one was really signifianctly better than the other.  They both use blue lasers and similar tech.  The whole war was stupid and avoidable.

Why not blamce JVC for not going to Sony sooner with VHS, and instead launching a competing format?
My parents went with video 2000 from Phillips, superior quality, dead. You could record on both sides, it had reverse and different play speeds without any distortion, full quality pause. It was quite a step back switching to VHS.

I still have the Xbox 360 HD-DVD player with a bunch of HD DVDs. The quality is not as good, but those were early ones ofcourse. Still HD-DVD has a maximum specced bitrate of 28mbps for video, Blu-ray 40mbps. Blame the producers for slow loading discs. I have blu-rays that boot fast and directly to the menu screen, although those are the exception. And disable internet for your blu-ray player if you can, some download up to date trailers or other crap. I hate BD live.

Competition isn't always good and being an early adopter is risky. Typical prisoner's dilemma in business. I'm glad the best format won this time. Philips was first with home VCR in 1972 and made the best with VC2000, got them nowhere.

As a collector digital movies are worse now than the video tape format war was. Which service will survive, have the most complete catalog, best consistent quality, stable collection, who knows. REDRAY player, Kaleidescope, Sony 4K player, Netflix, Amazon video, iTunes video, XBox video, PSN, UltraViolet, Disney digital.